Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 11/16/2018 12:42:00 PM (view original):
Effective at what, exactly?

Wiping out the assload of red tape and expenditures involved in the current federal tax code for one.

You don't think there will be a huge tax code written for how the sales tax applies?

Same code as the state sales tax now. Should not be too complex IMO.

Hold on, RSP is talking about a completely different plan than 9/9/9. He's talking about an across the board usage tax. Basically a sales tax on EVERYTHING.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 11/16/2018 12:42:00 PM (view original):
Effective at what, exactly?

Wiping out the assload of red tape and expenditures involved in the current federal tax code for one.

You don't think there will be a huge tax code written for how the sales tax applies?

Same code as the state sales tax now. Should not be too complex IMO.

Hold on, RSP is talking about a completely different plan than 9/9/9. He's talking about an across the board usage tax. Basically a sales tax on EVERYTHING.

Nah, that should not be the case. In the 9/9/9 you only pay the Federal Tax on NEW items. So not on used cards, thrift shop clothes, etc. It would be a totally different consumer marketplace. But you would tax the rich more because the rich always buy new and expensive things.

Quit f'n twisting other people's words. You do that sheit because you can't argue rationally with truths and facts. NOBODY wants a tax on EVERYTHING.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 11/16/2018 12:42:00 PM (view original):
Effective at what, exactly?

Wiping out the assload of red tape and expenditures involved in the current federal tax code for one.

You don't think there will be a huge tax code written for how the sales tax applies?

Same code as the state sales tax now. Should not be too complex IMO.

Hold on, RSP is talking about a completely different plan than 9/9/9. He's talking about an across the board usage tax. Basically a sales tax on EVERYTHING.

Nah, that should not be the case. In the 9/9/9 you only pay the Federal Tax on NEW items. So not on used cards, thrift shop clothes, etc. It would be a totally different consumer marketplace. But you would tax the rich more because the rich always buy new and expensive things.

Yeah, it's two different ideas. He's not talking about 9/9/9.

Posted by rsp777 on 11/16/2018 12:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 11/16/2018 9:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 11/15/2018 3:39:00 PM (view original):
Sales tax on what?? Food?? A Haircut??? A massage?? A Blow...... oh wait..........

Go back and read it all bob; the "usage" tax would only be on "unnecessary" things. Determining what is deemed "necessary" would be the big challenge. I think you'd have a tough time getting that "Blow....." item exempted. As an aside, legalizing and legislating prostitution would be a HUGE tax influx. There would be sales (and/or usage) tax, yearly licensing fees, mandated periodic health checks, etc.

I would be completely satisfied if the federal tax code was eliminated and we went to a system of a straight "usage" federal tax. EVERYTHING comes with a determined federal tax "necessary" or not. If you buy it the tax is built in. Whether you're a corporation, an individual, a church or a farmer you pay the federal tax on what you buy at whatever predetermined rate is arrived at. That's it. State sales tax could stay the same and still be added as such. Radical, but I would think it would be effective if implemented.

"EVERYTHING"

for the dumbest person on earth, all3-braincells.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

We are stacking. Life becomes more expensive but you're effective tax rate goes down to 9% so you may save more. Less beurocracy with complex tax codes and evaders. So your friends who are worth $200mil but pay little when they buy new furniture worth $2mil they pay $180k in federal taxes on it.

A married couple with 2 kids and a household income of $100,000 pays an effective rate of 5% in 2018.

So this plan almost DOUBLES their income taxes and also adds 9% to a lot of things they buy.

Seems like a terrible idea.

By contrast, our second example involves a married couple with two children and total household income of $100,000. Again, this family takes the standard deduction, and all of its income comes from wages and salaries.

For this taxpayer, the standard deduction is double what singles get, at $12,700. The family of four gets four personal exemptions at $4,050 per exemption, which provides another $16,200 in reductions. That brings taxable income down to $71,100. That amount keeps this taxpayer near the upper end of the 15% bracket, and the resulting tax is $9,732.50. Moreover, if the two kids qualify for the child tax credit, then an additional $2,000 in tax savings brings the net down to $7,732.50, or less than 8% of their income as an effective tax rate.

Your delta is not that much 9% vs. 8%. I am trying to shift the taxation burden from production to consumption. Maybe those that earn less would get a higher child tax credit and when they file at year end get a bigger refund or maybe they will be more frugal and not get iPhones and Air Jordans for their kids.

Um, that's not the 2018 system. There isn't a personal exemption anymore and the standard deduction is 24,000 for a married couple. Total federal taxes owed: $4739.

Good point. So its better for them under Trump? Hmmmm....even so I like the 9/9/9 they would just get a much bigger refund, right? Or be more frugal. Making only $100k and raising two kids is very difficult in this day and age. I agree.

They would NOT get a bigger refund under 999. They would owe double the income taxes before they paid a dime in sales taxes. It's a horrible ******* idea.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

We are stacking. Life becomes more expensive but you're effective tax rate goes down to 9% so you may save more. Less beurocracy with complex tax codes and evaders. So your friends who are worth $200mil but pay little when they buy new furniture worth $2mil they pay $180k in federal taxes on it.

A married couple with 2 kids and a household income of $100,000 pays an effective rate of 5% in 2018.

So this plan almost DOUBLES their income taxes and also adds 9% to a lot of things they buy.

Seems like a terrible idea.

By contrast, our second example involves a married couple with two children and total household income of $100,000. Again, this family takes the standard deduction, and all of its income comes from wages and salaries.

For this taxpayer, the standard deduction is double what singles get, at $12,700. The family of four gets four personal exemptions at $4,050 per exemption, which provides another $16,200 in reductions. That brings taxable income down to $71,100. That amount keeps this taxpayer near the upper end of the 15% bracket, and the resulting tax is $9,732.50. Moreover, if the two kids qualify for the child tax credit, then an additional $2,000 in tax savings brings the net down to $7,732.50, or less than 8% of their income as an effective tax rate.

Your delta is not that much 9% vs. 8%. I am trying to shift the taxation burden from production to consumption. Maybe those that earn less would get a higher child tax credit and when they file at year end get a bigger refund or maybe they will be more frugal and not get iPhones and Air Jordans for their kids.

Um, that's not the 2018 system. There isn't a personal exemption anymore and the standard deduction is 24,000 for a married couple. Total federal taxes owed: $4739.

Good point. So its better for them under Trump? Hmmmm....even so I like the 9/9/9 they would just get a much bigger refund, right? Or be more frugal. Making only $100k and raising two kids is very difficult in this day and age. I agree.

They would NOT get a bigger refund under 999. They would owe double the income taxes before they paid a dime in sales taxes. It's a horrible ******* idea.

Hold on. They are taxed higher now at work but effectively they get their money back at year end when they do their taxes correct? Unless they claim married 10? Maybe the 9/9/9 still gives them that option but the highest rate would be 9%. Does that make more sense? I don't think its a horrible idea. 9% but no odd deductions and games.

This should be hilarious - b_l, please share your infinite wisdom with us by explaining why the Federal Government should continue basing it's tax collecting on people's Income instead of Expenses.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

We are stacking. Life becomes more expensive but you're effective tax rate goes down to 9% so you may save more. Less beurocracy with complex tax codes and evaders. So your friends who are worth $200mil but pay little when they buy new furniture worth $2mil they pay $180k in federal taxes on it.

A married couple with 2 kids and a household income of $100,000 pays an effective rate of 5% in 2018.

So this plan almost DOUBLES their income taxes and also adds 9% to a lot of things they buy.

Seems like a terrible idea.

By contrast, our second example involves a married couple with two children and total household income of $100,000. Again, this family takes the standard deduction, and all of its income comes from wages and salaries.

For this taxpayer, the standard deduction is double what singles get, at $12,700. The family of four gets four personal exemptions at $4,050 per exemption, which provides another $16,200 in reductions. That brings taxable income down to $71,100. That amount keeps this taxpayer near the upper end of the 15% bracket, and the resulting tax is $9,732.50. Moreover, if the two kids qualify for the child tax credit, then an additional $2,000 in tax savings brings the net down to $7,732.50, or less than 8% of their income as an effective tax rate.

Your delta is not that much 9% vs. 8%. I am trying to shift the taxation burden from production to consumption. Maybe those that earn less would get a higher child tax credit and when they file at year end get a bigger refund or maybe they will be more frugal and not get iPhones and Air Jordans for their kids.

Um, that's not the 2018 system. There isn't a personal exemption anymore and the standard deduction is 24,000 for a married couple. Total federal taxes owed: $4739.

Good point. So its better for them under Trump? Hmmmm....even so I like the 9/9/9 they would just get a much bigger refund, right? Or be more frugal. Making only $100k and raising two kids is very difficult in this day and age. I agree.

They would NOT get a bigger refund under 999. They would owe double the income taxes before they paid a dime in sales taxes. It's a horrible ******* idea.

Hold on. They are taxed higher now at work but effectively they get their money back at year end when they do their taxes correct? Unless they claim married 10? Maybe the 9/9/9 still gives them that option but the highest rate would be 9%. Does that make more sense? I don't think its a horrible idea. 9% but no odd deductions and games.

No. I'm not talking about their withholding. I'm talking about their actual tax liability. They owe $4739 for the year to the feds, regardless of whether they had $4739 withheld from their paychecks. Maybe they had $6,000 withheld and get a refund. Maybe they had $3500 withheld and owe more. It doesn't matter.

Their tax liability is $4739.

But under 999, it's $9,000. Plus all the sales taxes.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

We are stacking. Life becomes more expensive but you're effective tax rate goes down to 9% so you may save more. Less beurocracy with complex tax codes and evaders. So your friends who are worth $200mil but pay little when they buy new furniture worth $2mil they pay $180k in federal taxes on it.

A married couple with 2 kids and a household income of $100,000 pays an effective rate of 5% in 2018.

So this plan almost DOUBLES their income taxes and also adds 9% to a lot of things they buy.

Seems like a terrible idea.

By contrast, our second example involves a married couple with two children and total household income of $100,000. Again, this family takes the standard deduction, and all of its income comes from wages and salaries.

For this taxpayer, the standard deduction is double what singles get, at $12,700. The family of four gets four personal exemptions at $4,050 per exemption, which provides another $16,200 in reductions. That brings taxable income down to $71,100. That amount keeps this taxpayer near the upper end of the 15% bracket, and the resulting tax is $9,732.50. Moreover, if the two kids qualify for the child tax credit, then an additional $2,000 in tax savings brings the net down to $7,732.50, or less than 8% of their income as an effective tax rate.

Your delta is not that much 9% vs. 8%. I am trying to shift the taxation burden from production to consumption. Maybe those that earn less would get a higher child tax credit and when they file at year end get a bigger refund or maybe they will be more frugal and not get iPhones and Air Jordans for their kids.

Um, that's not the 2018 system. There isn't a personal exemption anymore and the standard deduction is 24,000 for a married couple. Total federal taxes owed: $4739.

Good point. So its better for them under Trump? Hmmmm....even so I like the 9/9/9 they would just get a much bigger refund, right? Or be more frugal. Making only $100k and raising two kids is very difficult in this day and age. I agree.

They would NOT get a bigger refund under 999. They would owe double the income taxes before they paid a dime in sales taxes. It's a horrible ******* idea.

Hold on. They are taxed higher now at work but effectively they get their money back at year end when they do their taxes correct? Unless they claim married 10? Maybe the 9/9/9 still gives them that option but the highest rate would be 9%. Does that make more sense? I don't think its a horrible idea. 9% but no odd deductions and games.

No. I'm not talking about their withholding. I'm talking about their actual tax liability. They owe $4739 for the year to the feds, regardless of whether they had $4739 withheld from their paychecks. Maybe they had $6,000 withheld and get a refund. Maybe they had $3500 withheld and owe more. It doesn't matter.

Their tax liability is $4739.

But under 999, it's $9,000. Plus all the sales taxes.

Right and I am saying the standard deductions would still apply so they pay $9k but then the deductions and such lower it to what they pay now. Zero impact on them. The 9% would be lower for those who pay a higher effective rate as they would be capped at 9%. No more mortgage deductions, etc. BUT now those that can afford more will pay more via the consumption tax on new products. So in your case that family would have the same liability but those who would pay 15% or 20% would be down to 9% but would likely more than make up for it via the consumption tax.

The 999 plan eliminates deductions. There wouldn't be a standard deduction anymore. They would pay 9% on their full salary.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:39:00 PM (view original):
The 999 plan eliminates deductions. There wouldn't be a standard deduction anymore. They would pay 9% on their full salary.

Well we would redo it so there still is one. I am saying the 9/9/9 would be a good starting point. I agree that those that pay less now would not have to pay more. But they would have to still pay the consumption tax.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:39:00 PM (view original):
The 999 plan eliminates deductions. There wouldn't be a standard deduction anymore. They would pay 9% on their full salary.

Well we would redo it so there still is one. I am saying the 9/9/9 would be a good starting point. I agree that those that pay less now would not have to pay more. But they would have to still pay the consumption tax.

Why do we want to discourage economic activity with a consumption tax?

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:39:00 PM (view original):
The 999 plan eliminates deductions. There wouldn't be a standard deduction anymore. They would pay 9% on their full salary.

Well we would redo it so there still is one. I am saying the 9/9/9 would be a good starting point. I agree that those that pay less now would not have to pay more. But they would have to still pay the consumption tax.

Why do we want to discourage economic activity with a consumption tax?

I don't think it would discourage it but just alter it. You have more cash because you are paying less so you can use those monies to pay down debt or save for college. But people still need clothes, appliances, cars, etc. You would have to budget accordingly. The state sales tax doesn't really impact sales so once the people got used to it, to me it would be just a part of doing business. With lower corp tax rates maybe the companies would lower the price of some items too but Gov't tax collection to me would be more "fair".

Hold on, RSP is talking about a completely different plan than 9/9/9. He's talking about an across the board usage tax. Basically a sales tax on EVERYTHING.

This is correct. Everything. I would have no problem with it if the rate was figured properly.