Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:21:00 PM (view original):
I think the problem with arguing that a strikeout is the same as every other out, and why a lot of people have a problem with it, is that it may come across as if there's no difference between these 2 TVs:

1) Strikeout
2) Ball in play

Strikeouts are bad.  It gives you next to no chance of getting on base.  Hit the ball.

Out in play =/= ball in play.

That's correct.  I'm just telling you how the argument can come across when you say that.  Putting the ball in play is a good thing, it's much better than not putting the ball in play.  As tec said, it's harder to get mad at the guy who hit the ball hard right at someone than the guy who strikes out.

BABIP sez 30% of all balls in play are hits.

How many strikeouts become hits?

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:21:00 PM (view original):
I think the problem with arguing that a strikeout is the same as every other out, and why a lot of people have a problem with it, is that it may come across as if there's no difference between these 2 TVs:

1) Strikeout
2) Ball in play

Strikeouts are bad.  It gives you next to no chance of getting on base.  Hit the ball.

Out in play =/= ball in play.

That's correct.  I'm just telling you how the argument can come across when you say that.  Putting the ball in play is a good thing, it's much better than not putting the ball in play.  As tec said, it's harder to get mad at the guy who hit the ball hard right at someone than the guy who strikes out.

BABIP sez 30% of all balls in play are hits.

How many strikeouts become hits?

Posted by tecwrg on 5/28/2014 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 5/28/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 5/28/2014 12:24:00 PM (view original):
TV on right. 

Though I'm not upset with the GIDP player, because he made contact and put the ball in play.  Roughly 33% of the time, good things will happen when you do that.  Roughly 0% of the time will something good happen offensively with a strikeout.  Smart baseball.

Your turn.

TV on left.

I thought in your world, all outs were the same?

Have you changed your opinion?

I thought in your world, outs in play were always better than strikeouts?

Have you changed your opinion?

Nope.  Unless something has changed since the last time I checked, double plays count as two outs.  I think that's what the "double" part is referring to in the name.

A (single) out in play generally will not be worse than a strikeout, and will more often than not be better than a K.  Two outs will generally be worse than a strikeout.

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:21:00 PM (view original):
I think the problem with arguing that a strikeout is the same as every other out, and why a lot of people have a problem with it, is that it may come across as if there's no difference between these 2 TVs:

1) Strikeout
2) Ball in play

Strikeouts are bad.  It gives you next to no chance of getting on base.  Hit the ball.

Out in play =/= ball in play.

That's correct.  I'm just telling you how the argument can come across when you say that.  Putting the ball in play is a good thing, it's much better than not putting the ball in play.  As tec said, it's harder to get mad at the guy who hit the ball hard right at someone than the guy who strikes out.

BABIP sez 30% of all balls in play are hits.

How many strikeouts become hits?

Are you arguing with me? I think we're agreeing on this particular point.

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:21:00 PM (view original):
I think the problem with arguing that a strikeout is the same as every other out, and why a lot of people have a problem with it, is that it may come across as if there's no difference between these 2 TVs:

1) Strikeout
2) Ball in play

Strikeouts are bad.  It gives you next to no chance of getting on base.  Hit the ball.

Out in play =/= ball in play.

That's correct.  I'm just telling you how the argument can come across when you say that.  Putting the ball in play is a good thing, it's much better than not putting the ball in play.  As tec said, it's harder to get mad at the guy who hit the ball hard right at someone than the guy who strikes out.

BABIP sez 30% of all balls in play are hits.

How many strikeouts become hits?

Are you arguing with me? I think we're agreeing on this particular point.

I don't think I am.  But I can't read BL's responses unless they're quoted.

He seems to be arguing that balls in plays have to be outs in order for an argument to be made.   

30% of the time, they are not outs.

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:21:00 PM (view original):
I think the problem with arguing that a strikeout is the same as every other out, and why a lot of people have a problem with it, is that it may come across as if there's no difference between these 2 TVs:

1) Strikeout
2) Ball in play

Strikeouts are bad.  It gives you next to no chance of getting on base.  Hit the ball.

Out in play =/= ball in play.

That's correct.  I'm just telling you how the argument can come across when you say that.  Putting the ball in play is a good thing, it's much better than not putting the ball in play.  As tec said, it's harder to get mad at the guy who hit the ball hard right at someone than the guy who strikes out.

BABIP sez 30% of all balls in play are hits.

How many strikeouts become hits?

Are you arguing with me? I think we're agreeing on this particular point.

I don't think I am.  But I can't read BL's responses unless they're quoted.

He seems to be arguing that balls in plays have to be outs in order for an argument to be made.   

30% of the time, they are not outs.

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 1:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 12:21:00 PM (view original):
I think the problem with arguing that a strikeout is the same as every other out, and why a lot of people have a problem with it, is that it may come across as if there's no difference between these 2 TVs:

1) Strikeout
2) Ball in play

Strikeouts are bad.  It gives you next to no chance of getting on base.  Hit the ball.

Out in play =/= ball in play.

That's correct.  I'm just telling you how the argument can come across when you say that.  Putting the ball in play is a good thing, it's much better than not putting the ball in play.  As tec said, it's harder to get mad at the guy who hit the ball hard right at someone than the guy who strikes out.

BABIP sez 30% of all balls in play are hits.

How many strikeouts become hits?

Are you arguing with me? I think we're agreeing on this particular point.

I don't think I am.  But I can't read BL's responses unless they're quoted.

He seems to be arguing that balls in plays have to be outs in order for an argument to be made.   

30% of the time, they are not outs.

Yes, his argument is that in general, outs are outs.  He uses stats to back that up.

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 1:07:00 PM (view original):
Also, you CAN read BL's arguments.  You refuse to. 

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 1:09:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for being intentionally dense. 

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 5/28/2014 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 5/28/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/28/2014 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 5/28/2014 12:24:00 PM (view original):
TV on right. 

Though I'm not upset with the GIDP player, because he made contact and put the ball in play.  Roughly 33% of the time, good things will happen when you do that.  Roughly 0% of the time will something good happen offensively with a strikeout.  Smart baseball.

Your turn.

TV on left.

I thought in your world, all outs were the same?

Have you changed your opinion?

I thought in your world, outs in play were always better than strikeouts?

Have you changed your opinion?

Nope.  Unless something has changed since the last time I checked, double plays count as two outs.  I think that's what the "double" part is referring to in the name.

A (single) out in play generally will not be worse than a strikeout, and will more often than not be better than a K.  Two outs will generally be worse than a strikeout.

So you agree, some outs in play are much worse than other outs.

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 1:09:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for being intentionally dense. 

Do you think players swing the bat with the intention of making an out?

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 1:09:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for being intentionally dense. 

Do you think players swing the bat with the intention of making an out?

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 1:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/28/2014 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 5/28/2014 1:09:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for being intentionally dense. 

Do you think players swing the bat with the intention of making an out?

Huh? No. 

This was also directed at BL.