5/19 Release Survey Results Topic

colonels19
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54 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
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____ out of 583 that have active full season teams in the NEW SIM
6/1/2008 12:17 PM
msheat323
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As one of the 33% of the people who said that the new defensive rating are better, I'll try to throw my 2 cents into this discussion and give my opinion on the defensive rankings.

I may not be a "hardcore" player on WIS but personally I like to make my team of players and see how it matches up against everyone else's. I would perferably like to do this with GOOD players. I don't really want a player I've never heard of from the 65-66 version of a now Defunct team. Personally, I would rather just have regular players values deflated and have much more "name brand" players not just as starters but also as key rotational players. That is after all what these genre of fantasy sports games is about in my humble opinion.
6/5/2008 12:30 PM
monkee
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ok (I've actually argued this point with admin many times before vis-a-vis salary valuation) but what does that have to do with the defensive ratings? in particular what does it have to do with the way those ratings changed with the last release? that is to say do you think the actual scores are accurate or useful (i.e. do you think Lebron should have gone from a d rating in the 60s to a d rating of 100?)
6/5/2008 12:38 PM
monkee
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our newly vocal member of the silent "majority" hasnt responded to my query yet

but I do think it is worth pointing out that apparently (pending his clarifications) his stated reason for voting approval of the changed (I wont say improved) defensive rankings has nothing whatsoever to do with the defensive rankings themselves either before or after the update
6/5/2008 3:51 PM
msheat323
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Quote: Originally posted by monkee on 6/05/2008ok (I've actually argued this point with admin many times before vis-a-vis salary valuation) but what does that have to do with the defensive ratings? in particular what does it have to do with the way those ratings changed with the last release? that is to say do you think the actual scores are accurate or useful (i.e. do you think Lebron should have gone from a d rating in the 60s to a d rating of 100?)

Well I don't think LBJ should be a 100, but him being in the sixties was almost a crime. He is a high 80s low to mid 90s guy in my opinion I don't think the defensive ratings are perfect. I didn't mean to imply that at all. But if you asked me whether the ratings we currently have now or the old ratings are closer to reality, I would have to say the current defensive ratings are much, much better.

Another perfectly good example. I'm not sure if you or anyone else on WIS have EVER actually seen Udonis Haslem of the Miami Heat play but he is one of the better defensive PF in the NBA today. He was in the freaking 20s- 30s in the old rankings. Anyone who has ever seen him play would confirm that this is ridiculous. While he is only in the 50's in the current ranking system this is a much better assessment of his defensive abilities.
6/5/2008 4:34 PM
monkee
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a) you do realize that a rating of 50 is considered average so a rating in the 60s is well above average

b) in the case of Haslem which season are you talking about?
6/5/2008 5:17 PM
msheat323
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Quote: Originally posted by monkee on 6/05/2008a) you do realize that a rating of 50 is considered average so a rating in the 60s is well above averageb) in the case of Haslem which season are you talking about?


a) if a rating of 50 is average then a rating of 60 shouldn't be well above average.....

b) Just Haslem in general, However if you want a specific year you can say 05-06 Miami Heat championship Year, You know where he almost shut down Dirk single handily.
6/5/2008 5:35 PM
monkee
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Quote: Originally Posted By msheat323 on 6/05/2008
Quote: Originally posted by monkee on 6/05/2008
a) you do realize that a rating of 50 is considered average so a rating in the 60s is well above average

b) in the case of Haslem which season are you talking about?


a) if a rating of 50 is average then a rating of 60 shouldn't be well above average.....

so 20% is not significant? keep in mind that given any kind any kind of sensible distribution 90-100 ratings should be maintained for the handful of guys who were the best defenders to ever play - think in terms of a bell curve with outliers narrowing in both directions


b) Just Haslem in general, However if you want a specific year you can say 05-06 Miami Heat championship Year, You know where he almost shut down Dirk single handily.

yes, he was good that series - the key there was he got very physical with Dirk and took him out of his game but Im not sure that means he should be held in the same esteem as an Oakley or a Grant, let alone a Rodman and a series is not a season

6/5/2008 8:19 PM
chester_o
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94
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Dwyane Wade's defensive rating is listed as 100 (as a PG no less) for the 07-08 season - something to consider

was Wade as good this season as Payton at his best?

Lebron James is listed as 100 for this season - was he as good this season as Rodman at his best? because that's what the ratings say when you search for SFs with 100 ratings
6/6/2008 11:52 AM
msheat323
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so 20% is not significant? keep in mind that given any kind any kind of sensible distribution 90-100 ratings should be maintained for the handful of guys who were the best defenders to ever play - think in terms of a bell curve with outliers narrowing in both directions

It would be 10% not 20% and I wouldn't necessarily consider 10% to be all that significant. For example if a rating of 50 is average then i wouldn't consider a rating of 60 anything more then slightly above average.

yes, he was good that series - the key there was he got very physical with Dirk and took him out of his game but Im not sure that means he should be held in the same esteem as an Oakley or a Grant, let alone a Rodman and a series is not a season

I never compared Haslem to Rodman or Oakley nor would i rate them the the same. I feel that Haslem (as one of the best PF defensively in the league) warrants a defensive rating at least in the 70s to low 80s. I would put Oakley and Rodman both in the 90s. And Haslem was as good that whole Season as he was in that Series. I was just trying to paint a mental picture of his defensive abilities for you.

To chester_o- I Never said the current WIS rating system is perfect, I'm just debating it is better then the old one. Wade (in most people's opinion) isn't as good as Payton was Defensively in his prime. This is similar to the LBJ issue and I really can't defend that rating.
However, as the knowledgeable basketball fan I'm sure you are, you would agree with me that if Wade and Lebron could either be a 60 or a 100 with no in between, they would both be an 100. Right?
6/6/2008 12:39 PM
chester_o
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Quote: Originally Posted By msheat323 on 6/06/2008To chester_o- I Never said the current WIS rating system is perfect, I'm just debating it is better then the old one. Wade (in most people's opinion) isn't as good as Payton was Defensively in his prime. This is similar to the LBJ issue and I really can't defend that rating.
However, as the knowledgeable basketball fan I'm sure you are, you would agree with me that if Wade and Lebron could either be a 60 or a 100 with no in between, they would both be an 100. Right?
no

I'm totally comfortable with better than average defenders being rated better than average and not best of all time
6/6/2008 12:50 PM
msheat323
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This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
6/6/2008 12:56 PM
chester_o
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I have seen Lebron and Wade play

I have also had the pleasure of seeing Gary Payton and Rodman play in their primes - I also had the pleasure of watching Sydney Moncrief and Michael Cooper play (amongst many others)

and compared to them Lebron and DWade are much closer to 60 than 100

(and ps a 10 pt variation from a base score of 50 is a 20% variation - that may be what monkee meant (and that is a statistically significant variation))
6/6/2008 1:30 PM
all3
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Since 79 is closer to 60 than 100, and I don't think either Lebron or Wade deserve more than that, I'd have to agree with chester. Sure those two are well above average defenders in today's game, but let's remember that the scale is for all-time, and we don't want anybody but the all-time best in the 80-100 range (although Admin seems to think we do).
6/6/2008 11:55 PM
gmoney06
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I agree with you all. Historically, I have no sense for who was a great defender based on the ratings.
6/7/2008 1:03 PM
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