Posted by MikeT23 on 10/28/2014 10:20:00 AM (view original):
I'm not so sure about that.   Maybe you've been in a certain tax bracket too long to recall what it's like to say "Damn, I gotta make more money" but, as a small business owner, I'm only about 6 years removed from a "WTF am I gonna do?" moment.

Everyone knows they need x-amount to pay bills.    If I need $200 a week, any job offering less than $200 a week doesn't work.   Now, of course, if I have 3 offers between $300-$350, I'd start weighing other factors.   But, until I pass that magic number, money is the primary interest.   And it should be.

True - although what if a new job was twice the pay of your current job but took over an hour to commute each way? Is it still worth the money? Everyone is different and sometimes we do things we don't want to do to make ends meet. Most everyone makes sacrifices at some point. I told you at one point in my career I chased the money... And learned a valuable life lesson.

Vast majority of studies do however suggest money is a factor but its not the largest factor for retaining employees. In fact its usually #3-#5 in most cases.

It becomes #3-#5 after basic needs are met.   I honestly have no idea what % of people who are check to check by necessity(meaning they aren't ******* away money on "luxury" items) but that group of people have money at #1. 

Posted by moy23 on 10/28/2014 10:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/28/2014 10:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 10/28/2014 10:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/28/2014 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I've seen "up to...." advertisements.   You know that you're going to offer $11 with "we'll review in 90 days" but the applicant doesn't.    A guy who wants to work with take the $11 and review but move on when he doesn't get $15 in 90 days.    I've done the exact same thing.   So basically the employer is playing a game and I'm not sure there's a winner.  Sure they get a better employee but it's for a short time period.    The employee does get to work, and pay some bills, but he's not happy and is constantly looking from the day he accepted the offer.

Goes back to money not being the major factor for job change. People want to work for Apple despite paying lower than Google, Microsoft, and Amazon. Why is that?

Money usually peaks the interest in the role but plays a smaller part in the actual decision. If an interview candidate appears to be looking for more money as a primary driver I'm not hiring them cause like Mike said they are looking for a new paycheck from day 1.

Did you get a raise when you got your promotion?

It was not THE deciding factor - I could have made more money at my prior employer with a promotion (which would have happened within the next 3-6 months) than I'm making at my new company. Infact my old company offered me a lot more money to stay when I gave them my 2 week notice. Sr leadership called as well to try and keep me. In the end things like culture, who I'd be working for, the challenge, and locality were FAR more important to me. I told you earlier the biggest mistake I've ever made was thinking that I could work anywhere for more money, even if it was a miserable job. I'll never make that mistake again .

So would you still have changed companies if the new company had not offered you more money than you were currently making?

Posted by bad_luck on 10/28/2014 11:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 10/28/2014 10:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/28/2014 10:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 10/28/2014 10:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/28/2014 9:52:00 AM (view original):
I've seen "up to...." advertisements.   You know that you're going to offer $11 with "we'll review in 90 days" but the applicant doesn't.    A guy who wants to work with take the $11 and review but move on when he doesn't get $15 in 90 days.    I've done the exact same thing.   So basically the employer is playing a game and I'm not sure there's a winner.  Sure they get a better employee but it's for a short time period.    The employee does get to work, and pay some bills, but he's not happy and is constantly looking from the day he accepted the offer.

Goes back to money not being the major factor for job change. People want to work for Apple despite paying lower than Google, Microsoft, and Amazon. Why is that?

Money usually peaks the interest in the role but plays a smaller part in the actual decision. If an interview candidate appears to be looking for more money as a primary driver I'm not hiring them cause like Mike said they are looking for a new paycheck from day 1.

Did you get a raise when you got your promotion?

It was not THE deciding factor - I could have made more money at my prior employer with a promotion (which would have happened within the next 3-6 months) than I'm making at my new company. Infact my old company offered me a lot more money to stay when I gave them my 2 week notice. Sr leadership called as well to try and keep me. In the end things like culture, who I'd be working for, the challenge, and locality were FAR more important to me. I told you earlier the biggest mistake I've ever made was thinking that I could work anywhere for more money, even if it was a miserable job. I'll never make that mistake again .

So would you still have changed companies if the new company had not offered you more money than you were currently making?

No because I was actually happy where I was at. I had just got back from an all expense paid performance trip where my wife met the CEO, my bosses, their bosses and their wives.

When the recruiter called me six months ago I told him I'm not interested and that I'm happy where I'm at. he continued to probe and recommended I have to meet his client. I then asked 2 questions... "What's the pay range?" He told me and I said I'd have to be at the very top end. I then asked if it was a smaller firm because I've been at the huge corporate firms and I'm never going back for any amount of money. It was indeed a smaller firm so I agreed to meet the client for coffee.

First time I met the hiring manager I had all the #s and metrics to show my performance and I laid it out for him to get that part out of the way. Great conversation where I told him culture and personal/professional development is important to me - and that to get me on board I need my wife to be on board. Over the next few months he set me up to meet with 4 other higher ups where I intentionally drilled them about culture, how they hold people accountable, what does success look like, etc. I also asked people I trust in the industry what they had heard about my potentially new firm. I was prepared to walk away from a 27% raise if I didn't think I'd be a good fit.

My wife actually was not on board until the very end of the process even though she knew it was a raise. She really liked the people and the leadership I worked with at my prior company. In the end the locality and the fact I'd get home much earlier sold her on the new job.

Bottom line is yes I want to make more money - I've told you that countless times and its also why I went back to school for an MBA - I pretty much have ambitions to run the whole darn show one day. I'm not going to take a pay cut to move jobs when I'm already happy at my current job - thats the very definition of a stupid decision. I was able to put myself in a good position to leverage my accomplishments and increase my pay substantially. I owe a lot of that success to my mentors for helping me along the process.... But the deciding factor was NOT money. Money only peaked my interest.

Money is part of overall value.  While not at the professional level as moy, I have similar situations where money wasn't the entire deciding factor.  It is a part of the whole.  Now, after building my own value over years of hard work, I can pick and choose where I want to be based on the combination of values I determine are right for me.  In essence that's how markets work.  Money is essentially just a common measuring point.  I suppose you could place dollar values on different things and then work it out with money as a reference point, but really for me the value I give is traded for the value I receive, however it measures out...

moy, I really didn't need your entire life story. A simple yes or no would have been fine.

Your answer was no, you would not have left had the new company not offered you a raise. Money was a significant factor in your decision.

The company that hired you had to pay more to get the quality of worker needed to do the job. By the same logic, a company trying to fill an entry level position may have to offer more money if they want to attract workers willing to show up on time.

Posted by bad_luck on 10/28/2014 1:21:00 PM (view original):
moy, I really didn't need your entire life story. A simple yes or no would have been fine.

Your answer was no, you would not have left had the new company not offered you a raise. Money was a significant factor in your decision.

The company that hired you had to pay more to get the quality of worker needed to do the job. By the same logic, a company trying to fill an entry level position may have to offer more money if they want to attract workers willing to show up on time.

it's not that simple though. I had asked if it was a bigger company and told the recruiter that there was no chance for any amount of money that I would work for that company. How would you explain that?

also I mentioned that I liked where I work, why would I go work somewhere else for less money unless there was a painpoint to trigger me to do something like that?

and lastly, I did leave my first employer for less money and more opportunity at my second employer which turned out to be a fantastic move providing me with all the leverage I needed to get this position I have now.

moy, that's an irrelevant part of your life's story that doesn't fit his agenda. DENIED!

Posted by moy23 on 10/28/2014 1:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 10/28/2014 1:21:00 PM (view original):
moy, I really didn't need your entire life story. A simple yes or no would have been fine.

Your answer was no, you would not have left had the new company not offered you a raise. Money was a significant factor in your decision.

The company that hired you had to pay more to get the quality of worker needed to do the job. By the same logic, a company trying to fill an entry level position may have to offer more money if they want to attract workers willing to show up on time.

it's not that simple though. I had asked if it was a bigger company and told the recruiter that there was no chance for any amount of money that I would work for that company. How would you explain that?

also I mentioned that I liked where I work, why would I go work somewhere else for less money unless there was a painpoint to trigger me to do something like that?

and lastly, I did leave my first employer for less money and more opportunity at my second employer which turned out to be a fantastic move providing me with all the leverage I needed to get this position I have now.

I never said it was the only or most important factor. Just that it was a significant factor.

Do you agree that, in general*****, offering more money for a job is more likely to land a higher quality employee?

*****obviously, there are specific examples where someone makes a ton of money but is still lousy at their job.

"Less money and more opportunity" sounds like money.  Unless, of course, you'd like to define "opportunity" in a way that I'm not getting.

Posted by silentpadna on 10/28/2014 1:09:00 PM (view original):
Money is part of overall value.  While not at the professional level as moy, I have similar situations where money wasn't the entire deciding factor.  It is a part of the whole.  Now, after building my own value over years of hard work, I can pick and choose where I want to be based on the combination of values I determine are right for me.  In essence that's how markets work.  Money is essentially just a common measuring point.  I suppose you could place dollar values on different things and then work it out with money as a reference point, but really for me the value I give is traded for the value I receive, however it measures out...

This is a very good summary. It's not like I'm saying that money is not a factor at all... It is ... but studies show money is not the biggest factor when deciding to change jobs. I particularly like how you said "after building my own value over years of hard work, I can pick and choose where I want to be "... This demonstrates income opportunity which brings us back to what started this.... People need to start focusing on the opportunities and stop complaining about the so-called inequalities. There is NOTHING stopping someone from making more money but themselves.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/28/2014 2:06:00 PM (view original):
"Less money and more opportunity" sounds like money.  Unless, of course, you'd like to define "opportunity" in a way that I'm not getting.

Yes I took an actual pay cut to do the same job at a different company with the hope that I could get promoted and make more money down the road. Best move I've ever made.

So, really, it was about the money.    Got it.

Let's just be real.   You're at a point in your life where every decision is driven by money.   Nothing wrong with that but don't try to sell it in another way.   If that wasn't true, you wouldn't take the opportunity to spend so much time at your work and away from your wife and young children.  The way you're phrasing things is a little off-putting.    Being driven by the dollar isn't anything to be ashamed of but you're laying it out in a way that comes across wrong. 

Personally, I think the people involved in this discussion aren't representative of the majority of the population.   We have ways, or means, to increase our income rather quickly.   So it seems like we have options at the ready.   Joe Lunchbox is pounding nails for $12 an hour.    Joe Lunchbox can't increase his pay with hard work or switching jobs.   He could work more hours, if available, or take classes at night(taking years to earn a degree).  But the simple fact of the matter is that the decisions he made on his way to being Joe Lunchbox are going to limit his opportunities.

"I was able to put myself in a good position to leverage my accomplishments and increase my pay substantially. I owe a lot of that success to my mentors for helping me along the process.... But the deciding factor was NOT money. Money only peaked my interest."



A-Rod is that you?

http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/29/obamacare-year-one-78-percent-premium-hikes/

I'm sure the spin will be to blame everybody and everything but Obamacare.