I'll agree on Mays. 

It really depends what you mean by "under-performer" though. Are we simply talking guys who don't hit their RL stats, or are downright awful? DiMaggio never lives up to his RL numbers for me, but he's still always steady and productive, so I don't really consider him an "under-performer" in the sense that he doesn't play well.

Same with '75 Morgan. I've used him a couple times and usually get .280-.300 with a .390ish OBP and great SB numbers, which I think are pretty good if you don't compare them solely to his RL numbers.

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/27/2010 1:03:00 AM (view original):
I dunno why people expect much from Mays or DiMaggio.  They're way overpriced for low-cap leagues and don't have high enough OBPs to perform anywhere near their cost in high-cap leagues  They don't do well but I'd never expect them to.  Joe Morgan seems more like a guy who looks good but doesn't perform.  I also feel like Luis Tiant never lives up to my modest expectations.

 You're right here. The early DiMaggio years and Mays's '50s seasons occurred in an environment in which only Ruth's stats would have stood out enough to create really strong normalization. Ted Williams is the one guy in the early Dimaggio years who really normalizes high. The same problem affects all hitters 1928-30, just as the problem inverted and applied to pitchers compromises the normalization for 1908 and 1968 pitchers.

 The player who will not perform anywhere close to any expectations for me is Roger Clemens. It doesn't matter what the season or what his WIS numbers look like. No steroids available in WIS. Next to Clemens, it's Nolan Ryan. I simply never draft Ryan anymore.

Another tale of Mays fail: Willie circa '55 at $120 mil:

.238 / .292 / .382

Yankee Stadium III is really hurting him, but he's still only hitting .263 on the road. Also, his fielding has only been middle of the pack. At least he's 16/18 on the basepaths.

My first team had a bunch of roto studs on it: Ron Gant, Jose Canseco, Foxy Ryne Sandberg, HoJo, and they all did poorly.  In roto, I would pay premium dollars for a potential 30/30 guy, but in SIM...not so much anymore.

Posted by doubletruck on 9/28/2010 10:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/27/2010 1:03:00 AM (view original):
I dunno why people expect much from Mays or DiMaggio.  They're way overpriced for low-cap leagues and don't have high enough OBPs to perform anywhere near their cost in high-cap leagues  They don't do well but I'd never expect them to.  Joe Morgan seems more like a guy who looks good but doesn't perform.  I also feel like Luis Tiant never lives up to my modest expectations.

 You're right here. The early DiMaggio years and Mays's '50s seasons occurred in an environment in which only Ruth's stats would have stood out enough to create really strong normalization. Ted Williams is the one guy in the early Dimaggio years who really normalizes high. The same problem affects all hitters 1928-30, just as the problem inverted and applied to pitchers compromises the normalization for 1908 and 1968 pitchers.

 The player who will not perform anywhere close to any expectations for me is Roger Clemens. It doesn't matter what the season or what his WIS numbers look like. No steroids available in WIS. Next to Clemens, it's Nolan Ryan. I simply never draft Ryan anymore.

I agree that Ryan is an underperformer in single season leagues, but I have him in two progressives (one near the beginning of his career, the other at the end) and he gets my vote for one of the best progressive picks because of his 25 seasons of good to great stats.

Yes poor Amy she has taken more then her share of very bad beatings & that is for sure!

Although not really a front line player, '86 Candaleria has been the death of several of my bullpens.  Never again.

Well Joe Morgan a UNDERPERFORMER but he has been pretty lights out since that Oct update.

Doesn't '66 Ortega give up way over 1 HR/9?

yeah he does like 1.18 or something like that but i used him in the astrodome and he still wasn't any good

He has played pretty bad no the last 2 teams I had him on.

I'm using him again only 6 games in he is batting clean up AVG.182,OBP.182 SLG.182.If this season goes like the last 2 I will not be using him any more!!

Since I'm a glutton for punishment,  I decided to put this thread to the test and formed an $80 MM OL team of underachievers.  Evidently I'm no longer satisfied just losing with regular teams.  I tried to build the team according to the principles I usually use but, if these guys are such underachievers, the team should lose 90-100 games easy.

As someone pointed out, a lot of these guys are more bad values than genuine underperformers.  A lot of them are simply too expensive for low cap leagues.  I couldn't bring myself to draft `75 Morgan, since he costs nearly $9 million.  I wouldn't pay that in an $80 MM OL for any position player except Ruth.  Any $9 MM 2B is going to underperform relative to his cost, including Hornsby.  So I took the "better" value `76 Joe Morgan for a little over $7 million.  I put two Wille Mays in the OF (`51 and `70), and both look like decent value picks.  I couldn't find an economical DiMaggio, so I added an Al Simmons, another chronic underachiever mentioned in this post.

I couldn't bring myself to pay a ton of money on Pujols, but I did put Mickey Cochrane at catcher, the only player violating my usual rules, since I never go with a catcher with an arm as low as B-.  I punted my 3B and treated myself to a couple players I like -- Hub Collins `88 at SS (tip of the cap to Boogerlips) and Steve Evans `14 at 1B (thanks to Amy).  If what everyone says about underperformers is true, five underperforming position players should be more than enough to sink me.

Not content to stop there, I loaded my pitching staff with underperformers, too.  I drafted an overpriced Dean Chance `64 and a ridiculously overpriced Steve Carlton `72.  I couldn't go with Nolan Ryan, because he has no seasons with fewer than 3 BB/9, and I never draft pitchers with more than 3 BB/9.  I don't consider his underperformance in SIM to be real underperformance.  Given his high walk rate, you wouldn't expect Nolan Ryan to do well in SIM.  Then I topped things off with a notoriously underperforming Trevor Hoffman as my closer.  I filled the rest of my bullpen with relievers I actually like (Quinn, Robitaille and Tiefenauer).

My team is playing at Great American (+2/+2 HR), since the one thing they should be able to do is hit a few homers and only Morgan and Collins have speed.  I'm undecided about the pitching, so a 1.00 ballpark seemed about right.

I just joined a league and it should start in a couple days.  Let the underperformance begin.  I'll keep you posted.

Yeah, but he's fast, cheap, has great range and can play the OF.  He's a pretty consistent .330-.350/,400 guy with 70-80 steals and 15-25 + plays on most of my other teams.