Savage XI Rosters/Commentary Topic

Awesome job rob. I love how you always provide awesome content. I’d love to figure out your magic formula for ranking players.
Ben adds such great theoretical, high level philosophy into the conversation with such an eloquent delivery. Like when he said the top value minutes from teams may have “crested” and perhaps now gone the other way, that’s such a great theory to talk about.
5/6/2023 11:16 PM
That was fun. I'd like to have heard more about individual teams instead of draft round value, but I recognize the immense difficulty in doing so, not to mention you said basically the same thing at the end. I also am someone who thinks people are overly dumb about using adp as value (not saying either of you are necessarily; in fact I've heard numerous times both of you talk about adp being overrated) and have a really different approach than most when it comes to this draft.

That said, I'm probably going to be *** this time. I've had a crazy week and have barely been able to work on teams (haven't since Monday), so getting back to it now. By my metrics, my teams are easily stronger than last year's but feel weaker if that makes any sense whatsoever (worse defense, rebounding, turnovers and fouls but omfg better efg% and ast%). Historically, when I've focused on the former, I've done far better than the latter. Far, far better.

This also might be the first time I've drafted where doing a top 2 or 3 strategy is far superior to an all-5 strategy. IDK. I'm still playing with the spreadsheets and will be doing so for the greater part of the next 48 hours.
5/7/2023 4:37 AM (edited)

I'd like to have heard more about individual teams instead of draft round value,

We are planning a second video soon to talk about each team.
5/7/2023 6:26 AM
The tentative plan if schedules align is to record the next video tonight, edit the next couple of days and get it posted midweek.
5/7/2023 10:24 AM
Posted by chewy3344 on 5/6/2023 11:16:00 PM (view original):
Awesome job rob. I love how you always provide awesome content. I’d love to figure out your magic formula for ranking players.
Ben adds such great theoretical, high level philosophy into the conversation with such an eloquent delivery. Like when he said the top value minutes from teams may have “crested” and perhaps now gone the other way, that’s such a great theory to talk about.
It's not really one magic formula... it's a whole bunch of formulas where I then just do a rank of ranks. Forever ago I tried comprehensive formulas and gave up on the idea because I don't think it is practical.

And yeah, Ben is far more eloquent than me that is for sure. A lot less swearing too.
5/7/2023 10:52 AM
Episode filmed. 2 hours of talking about everyone’s teams. And at least 90 minutes of that was non-SGA talk.

The main thing I learned in the deep dive is that this league is hard af. There’s so many good teams that there’s going to be some awesome squads that don’t even crack the top 16.

Thanks for having me on, Rob.
5/8/2023 12:04 AM
looks like we're still missing a few people, so I'm gonna try a few more iterations, but I keep getting pretty similar results.
Category This Year Last Year
minutes 19680 19680
usage 104.3 104.3
efg% 55.7 54.3
ts% 59.5 58.1
3pm 512 542
ast% 72.4 62.5
fouled% 10.6 11.1
fp48 17.99 16.88
orb% 35.2 35.8
drb% 94.4 96.0
crb% 129.5 131.8
tov% 13.5 12.1
def 68.1 72.1
stocks% 16.5 17.8

Thoughts:
This is really a top three team build, and my personal metrics say that the teams are about one percent better per minute this time than last time even over a 5-team spread (top 3 teams are roughly 2% better than top 3 last season). However, looking at the breakdown, it's apparent how dominant a factor efg% plays in my metric. I'm much stronger there and in assists (which I don't personally value much at all) but weaker in literally every other area, including a pair of areas I already struggled with last season: forcing turnovers and getting to the line. I think my only hope here is if my best teams get easy draws and get some playoff luck.

I have one build that's more balanced across all five teams that yields a very similar 5TA where I basically have made the worst teams less worse but feel like I've significantly hurt the best teams. That build's only hope is all teams make playoffs and get easy division draws / playoff luck.

I have another line of thought where I stacked two teams, made two more okay teams, and then just have one real **** the bed squad. Looking at it and comparing it to last year's squad, my best 4 teams this year would be better than the best last 4, and then the last team is probably as bad in a completely different way. Again, though, I feel like my primary evaluation tool when using this comparison is flawed, because when I look at the breakdown of each stat, I think my teams last year were better. My metric has been really good to me since I started using it, though, so I'm going to trust it (what else can I ******* do at this point anyway? lol). This is probably the build I'm ultimately going to go with, but I'm going to sleep on it and see if I can't make some improvements tomorrow. If not, I'll enter my teams so we're not waiting to give Ben his all-defense bonus.

Where I think I went wrong:
My plan was to take one big with a good amount of minutes and then do a super rotation with the other. Ed single-handedly destroyed that idea when I thought I had Lucas in the bag for the round 5 turn and he took him. I panicked and took the guy with the best per-minute value on my board - by far - who happens to play so few minutes. I think that move right there dictated that I'm no longer on a 5-team strategy no matter how hard I try to move stuff around. I think Rob & Ben are spot on that he's a great value, just not early in the 5th. I think he's an early 7th rounder at best.

I'm also insanely frustrated with Chandler, as i was the last time I picked him, as he is like two different people. He doesn't rebound like you think he does and he doesn't play defense like you think he does. He kind of does one and kind of does the other, but he never does both exceedingly well at the same time. I still like him better than Capela - Tyson's worst defense is as good as his best, and you're stuck with 3x 50 or below defense seasons with Capela - but I definitely hate him where I got him.

On that note, I feel about the 2nd round like Ben said he feels in the 4th... at least once you get past the first two (maybe three) picks of the turn: everybody that's available feels like they should go mid/late 2nd round, not early 2nd. I hate it in every format, but most especially Savage. I do like the early part of the third there, however. The fifth feels bad, too. I've drafted two Savages in a row there (21, 20) and I just ******* hate drafting there.

About the only picks I made that I like are Kidd, LaVine, and Oladipo. When I took LaVine, though, I was expecting to pair him with some other similar guys, and that just never came about. Like Rob mentioned in the podcast, I expected a ton of guys that went in round 7 to go in like round 9 or 10, even with the new seasons. One weakness of my evaluation tool metric is that it undervalues three pointers drastically. So to combat that this time, I decided I was going to pick one position and just make that the bomber position. Well, I decided that after round 2 when the run on PGs went crazy. I seriously thought I was going to have Bird & Kyrie and was so stoked about it. Anyway. I figured if I was taking the best per-value minute dudes at the other positions, covering for weaknesses with positional flexibility, I could get an edge on everyone else who was passing on those type players and build a godly efficient, high volume 3-point rotation out of Savage nobodies. Y'all **** all over that in round 7. I don't know if that move even would have made sense, but that was the plan.

I think a reasonable projection based on what I've seen and what I've experienced in Savage is in the 8-12 range. I obviously hope that I'm wrong, but I don't want to get my hopes up too much only to have reality crush my soul.
5/8/2023 2:52 AM (edited)
On that note, I feel about the 2nd round like Ben said he feels in the 4th... at least once you get past the first two (maybe three) picks of the turn: everybody that's available feels like they should go mid/late 2nd round, not early 2nd.



I agree. I mention this in episode 2.
5/8/2023 10:17 AM
Exsctly!! Yeah, it’s like… there are 26 or 27 guys that are firsts and then like 12 dudes you feel yucky taking before say, 36
5/8/2023 2:17 PM
Very excited to get it going! Is there a set amount of time we wait to start the season? I think it's been a week since the draft ended. How long do we typically give to get the teams together?
5/8/2023 3:07 PM
last night was supposed to be the deadline but five people in addition to me at last check have not entered their teams.
5/8/2023 3:41 PM
Posted by ashamael on 5/8/2023 3:41:00 PM (view original):
last night was supposed to be the deadline but five people in addition to me at last check have not entered their teams.
Thanks for the response. Are you purposely not entering your teams by the deadline? Is it just "life happens", or are people trying to gain an advantage by waiting and blowing off the deadline?
5/8/2023 3:53 PM
For me, it's been "life happens." I'm going to get my teams in by tomorrow at the latest.
5/8/2023 4:20 PM
Sorry, but I have not been feeling well for almost a week and it has been impacting everything in my life.
5/8/2023 4:45 PM
Posted by berkelon on 5/8/2023 3:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 5/8/2023 3:41:00 PM (view original):
last night was supposed to be the deadline but five people in addition to me at last check have not entered their teams.
Thanks for the response. Are you purposely not entering your teams by the deadline? Is it just "life happens", or are people trying to gain an advantage by waiting and blowing off the deadline?
A little of B and a whole lot of A. I didn't get to work on my team hardly at all over the last week. I checked Sunday evening to see how many hadn't put their teams in, and since it was more than just a couple, I decided to work on them further. I usually work on my teams till the last minute to try and get the best teams I can out there.
5/8/2023 5:18 PM
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