Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 5/16/2018 1:55:00 PM (view original):
out of my friends and family? very little. I try not to be friends with racists. But my friends and family are a very small portion of the population.

Same for me as well as my co workers and acquaintances. So if neither you nor I see very many if any and we are typical middle class families I would gauge, why may I not extrapolate that racists are few and far between?

because we both stated we try not to associate with racists. Basing how many racists there are in the country based on the limited number of people we know is silly. Between the two of we know maybe 1000 people. To base the whole country of hundreds of millions on 1000 people is probably foolhardy. That's like me saying I am over 6'2". Most of my family and friends are over 6'2. Therefore most of the country is over 6'2".

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 5/16/2018 1:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 1:49:00 PM (view original):
So what exactly is wrong with me saying stop looking at stats and look at it on a case by case basis? Do tell.

show me where I said that was wrong.

When you said I should not be opining because I am not black?

Um, saying each case should be looked at on its merits is not opining on what it is like to be black.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 5/16/2018 1:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 1:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 5/16/2018 1:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 11:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 11:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 9:22:00 AM (view original):
I'm going to speak for CCCP. It would be where you judge each individual based on their own accomplishments. Instead of saying that guy is poor because he is black, which whether you realize it or not is what you do, you start to look at his qualifications and achievements? Do he have a HS diploma? Does he have a college degree? Does he spend his money wisely? Was he the most qualified candidate for the job that he was turned down for? Race should never even be considered.

I agree that that should be the way it is, but it simply isn't in this world right now. And I am not saying that race is the only factor. So how do we get to your proposed world?

We will get that way when people like you quit judging people based on race and start judging accomplishments and failures based on merit.

You are right though. It will be a long time before the left stops lumping everyone person in a certain ethnicity, gender, etc into groups and starts judging each person individually. It's a shame.

??? No, Because we cannot live in an imaginary world where no one is racist

Some people are racist. Some blacks are racist, some whites are racist, some Asians are racist, some hispanics are racist. You get the point.

But, it is racist to say people fail because of their race, which is what you do everyday on here. Until you start judging each for person individually, you are just as racist as the people that you complain about.

Exactly. So not everyone believes that way. Stop trying to say that we live in a perfect world. We don't.

PEOPLE DON'T FAIL SOLELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. RACE IS ONE OF MANY, MANY FACTORS.

Race is NOT a factor in failure. STOP being racist, Tang.

Factors of failure:

1. Poor choices
2. Lack of an education
3. Lack of ambition

You just said that discrimination exists.

It does, but it is not a factor in whether a person succeeds or not. We are not defined by our surroundings. This is why you Jews don't have the issues that other races do. They did not allow themselves to be defined by their circumstances.

You liberals have forced the other groups to be such victims and have held them back so far by living in the past that they haven't been able to overcome like Jews have.

It's pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

how can you say its not a factor? If a white guy gets a job over a black guy solely because he is white, that the black's guy's disadvantages do play a part in whether or not he succeeds. It is not the only factor, and it is not a factor all the time,but it can be a factor

That is a specific case that you mentioned in a generality and if a guy gets a job over a women because he is a guy then he has an advantage there too? Maybe the company prefers a guy? Its a free country and a private company why can't they hire who they please? If this same company keeps misfiring and not hiring the best candidates then the company will not maximize profits and karma prevails. I totally don't see your point here, wylie.

I don't see how you can not see my point. You are a smart guy. If a Black person or an Hispanic person or a woman does not get a job, even though they may be fully qualified for that job because they are Black, or Hispanic or a woman, they are being discriminated against. It affects their ability to succeed. Whether or not the company has the right to hire who they want.

Succeed with that particular company. Now if all companies had collusion and that was the case I would agree. But most only see one color, green. And will hire the best candidate.

Have you dealt with most companies? I don't think so, which means you have no way to know how most companies run their businesses. Neither do I. The problem is you seem to be attributing your views to everyone else. Unfortunately, not everyone else feels people should not be judged based on race, religion or sexual preferences. Most probably feel that way, but way too many do not.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 2:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/16/2018 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 5/16/2018 1:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 1:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 5/16/2018 1:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 11:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 11:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 9:22:00 AM (view original):
I'm going to speak for CCCP. It would be where you judge each individual based on their own accomplishments. Instead of saying that guy is poor because he is black, which whether you realize it or not is what you do, you start to look at his qualifications and achievements? Do he have a HS diploma? Does he have a college degree? Does he spend his money wisely? Was he the most qualified candidate for the job that he was turned down for? Race should never even be considered.

I agree that that should be the way it is, but it simply isn't in this world right now. And I am not saying that race is the only factor. So how do we get to your proposed world?

We will get that way when people like you quit judging people based on race and start judging accomplishments and failures based on merit.

You are right though. It will be a long time before the left stops lumping everyone person in a certain ethnicity, gender, etc into groups and starts judging each person individually. It's a shame.

??? No, Because we cannot live in an imaginary world where no one is racist

Some people are racist. Some blacks are racist, some whites are racist, some Asians are racist, some hispanics are racist. You get the point.

But, it is racist to say people fail because of their race, which is what you do everyday on here. Until you start judging each for person individually, you are just as racist as the people that you complain about.

Exactly. So not everyone believes that way. Stop trying to say that we live in a perfect world. We don't.

PEOPLE DON'T FAIL SOLELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. RACE IS ONE OF MANY, MANY FACTORS.

Race is NOT a factor in failure. STOP being racist, Tang.

Factors of failure:

1. Poor choices
2. Lack of an education
3. Lack of ambition

You just said that discrimination exists.

It does, but it is not a factor in whether a person succeeds or not. We are not defined by our surroundings. This is why you Jews don't have the issues that other races do. They did not allow themselves to be defined by their circumstances.

You liberals have forced the other groups to be such victims and have held them back so far by living in the past that they haven't been able to overcome like Jews have.

It's pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

how can you say its not a factor? If a white guy gets a job over a black guy solely because he is white, that the black's guy's disadvantages do play a part in whether or not he succeeds. It is not the only factor, and it is not a factor all the time,but it can be a factor

That is a specific case that you mentioned in a generality and if a guy gets a job over a women because he is a guy then he has an advantage there too? Maybe the company prefers a guy? Its a free country and a private company why can't they hire who they please? If this same company keeps misfiring and not hiring the best candidates then the company will not maximize profits and karma prevails. I totally don't see your point here, wylie.

I don't see how you can not see my point. You are a smart guy. If a Black person or an Hispanic person or a woman does not get a job, even though they may be fully qualified for that job because they are Black, or Hispanic or a woman, they are being discriminated against. It affects their ability to succeed. Whether or not the company has the right to hire who they want.

And companies do not have a right to discriminate on the basis or race or sex.

Correct but if I believe a man is best for a certain job I will hire a man. If I believe it is a woman I will hire a woman. Pretty sure Hooters mostly hires women...Chip N Dales hires men. If I am running a non for profit lending practice and concentrating on WME then I will hire a female relationship manager more than likely than a male. I mean, gender is just one factor. I am not hiring the woman because I hate men, I am hiring her because she is probably better for that specific role.

You look for trouble where there isn't any.

That is the way it should be. the problem is when you have 3 candidates equally suited for the job, but you hire one guy because he is white over the other two because one is a Jew and the other is a lesbian. Hiring the best qualified candidate for a job is not the issue.

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 2:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 2:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/16/2018 2:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 2:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/16/2018 2:18:00 PM (view original):
You're naive.

Also, most racism isn't explicit or even intentional. People tend to want to be around people they relate to. They also tend to hire and promote people they relate to. When most bosses are white men, they tend to hire and promote white men.

Not in my career experience. I think you're pessimistic.

Well, ****, it's a good thing everyone's career experiences are just like yours.

And not like yours. Capt. Pessimist.

Don't forget that B_L lives in the most racist place on earth, California, so his experiences are going to be different from yours or mine.

I live in California. I have also lived in NY, MA and FL. In my experience, California is less racist than Florida and MA (Boston was a very racist city, at least when I lived there. Granted that was many years ago, but I can only speak from my experiences) and about the same as NY.

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 11:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 11:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 9:22:00 AM (view original):
I'm going to speak for CCCP. It would be where you judge each individual based on their own accomplishments. Instead of saying that guy is poor because he is black, which whether you realize it or not is what you do, you start to look at his qualifications and achievements? Do he have a HS diploma? Does he have a college degree? Does he spend his money wisely? Was he the most qualified candidate for the job that he was turned down for? Race should never even be considered.

I agree that that should be the way it is, but it simply isn't in this world right now. And I am not saying that race is the only factor. So how do we get to your proposed world?

We will get that way when people like you quit judging people based on race and start judging accomplishments and failures based on merit.

You are right though. It will be a long time before the left stops lumping everyone person in a certain ethnicity, gender, etc into groups and starts judging each person individually. It's a shame.

??? No, Because we cannot live in an imaginary world where no one is racist

Some people are racist. Some blacks are racist, some whites are racist, some Asians are racist, some hispanics are racist. You get the point.

But, it is racist to say people fail because of their race, which is what you do everyday on here. Until you start judging each for person individually, you are just as racist as the people that you complain about.

Exactly. So not everyone believes that way. Stop trying to say that we live in a perfect world. We don't.

PEOPLE DON'T FAIL SOLELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. RACE IS ONE OF MANY, MANY FACTORS.

Race is NOT a factor in failure. STOP being racist, Tang.

Factors of failure:

1. Poor choices
2. Lack of an education
3. Lack of ambition

You just said that discrimination exists.

It does, but it is not a factor in whether a person succeeds or not. We are not defined by our surroundings. This is why you Jews don't have the issues that other races do. They did not allow themselves to be defined by their circumstances.

You liberals have forced the other groups to be such victims and have held them back so far by living in the past that they haven't been able to overcome like Jews have.

It's pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

If discrimination exists, then by definition it is a factor. Jews and Black people have entirely different cultures and entirely different situations. It's lunacy to compare the two and you know it.

RACISM EXISTS. YOU ARE ARGUING THAT RACISM DOES NOT EXIST. WE DO NOT LIVE IN A POST-RACIAL SOCIETY. TO PRETEND THAT RACISM DOES NOT EXIST AND THAT THERE ARE NO ISSUES IN AMERICA INVOLVING RACE IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 1:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 11:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 9:22:00 AM (view original):
I'm going to speak for CCCP. It would be where you judge each individual based on their own accomplishments. Instead of saying that guy is poor because he is black, which whether you realize it or not is what you do, you start to look at his qualifications and achievements? Do he have a HS diploma? Does he have a college degree? Does he spend his money wisely? Was he the most qualified candidate for the job that he was turned down for? Race should never even be considered.

I agree that that should be the way it is, but it simply isn't in this world right now. And I am not saying that race is the only factor. So how do we get to your proposed world?

We will get that way when people like you quit judging people based on race and start judging accomplishments and failures based on merit.

You are right though. It will be a long time before the left stops lumping everyone person in a certain ethnicity, gender, etc into groups and starts judging each person individually. It's a shame.

??? No, Because we cannot live in an imaginary world where no one is racist

Who said no one was racist you moron? There are racist black people and racist white people. And? They are few and far between.

By saying that we currently live in a post-racial society, you are saying that no one is a racist.

"denoting or relating to a period or society in which racial prejudice and discrimination no longer exist."

That's post-racial. That's what you and strikeout are arguing currently exists.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 1:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 11:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 11:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 9:22:00 AM (view original):
I'm going to speak for CCCP. It would be where you judge each individual based on their own accomplishments. Instead of saying that guy is poor because he is black, which whether you realize it or not is what you do, you start to look at his qualifications and achievements? Do he have a HS diploma? Does he have a college degree? Does he spend his money wisely? Was he the most qualified candidate for the job that he was turned down for? Race should never even be considered.

I agree that that should be the way it is, but it simply isn't in this world right now. And I am not saying that race is the only factor. So how do we get to your proposed world?

We will get that way when people like you quit judging people based on race and start judging accomplishments and failures based on merit.

You are right though. It will be a long time before the left stops lumping everyone person in a certain ethnicity, gender, etc into groups and starts judging each person individually. It's a shame.

??? No, Because we cannot live in an imaginary world where no one is racist

Some people are racist. Some blacks are racist, some whites are racist, some Asians are racist, some hispanics are racist. You get the point.

But, it is racist to say people fail because of their race, which is what you do everyday on here. Until you start judging each for person individually, you are just as racist as the people that you complain about.

Exactly. So not everyone believes that way. Stop trying to say that we live in a perfect world. We don't.

PEOPLE DON'T FAIL SOLELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. RACE IS ONE OF MANY, MANY FACTORS.

Race is NOT a factor in failure. STOP being racist, Tang.

Factors of failure:

1. Poor choices
2. Lack of an education
3. Lack of ambition

You just said that discrimination exists.

It does, but it is not a factor in whether a person succeeds or not. We are not defined by our surroundings. This is why you Jews don't have the issues that other races do. They did not allow themselves to be defined by their circumstances.

You liberals have forced the other groups to be such victims and have held them back so far by living in the past that they haven't been able to overcome like Jews have.

It's pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Agreed. Race baiting should be outlawed.

#1) Graduate HS
#2) Get a job
#3) Don't be a single parent.

Seems simple

Sorry to the 50% of people who do that and don't even break into the middle class. Shucks.

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 1:18:00 PM (view original):
I must be naive, because where I live people just get along. I still say that the majority of racists are in liberal areas. Think about where every "racist" story comes out of. It's always a liberal area. I know Tang says that is because it is where the media is at, but Tang is incorrec. Hell, CNN is here in Atlanta.

Unless you provide proof or evidence other than 'libs be racist', I will go with the logical answer which is that the more people and media are in a place, the more likely it is that these incidents are reported. There are more incidents in Atlanta than Albany.

Additionally, the more sensitive a populous is on this issue, the more it will be reported.

HYPOTHETICAL:
A boss in Atlanta is discriminating based on race. The story isn't reported because a lot of bosses in Georgia discriminate based on race.
A boss in NYC discriminates based on race. The story is reported because it is not normal for NYC.

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 1:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:31:00 PM (view original):
"Right, like Jews, but worse"

You said it.

I think you know what I meant.

I actually don't. How is what black people endured worse than what Jews endured?

In the USA, we have a deep, systemic racism against black people. It is in our culture and history. The USA didn't do the holocaust. Very few antisemitic people have became president. The USA participated in slavery and Jim Crow. A ton of racists have been president. There was no prevalent redlining for Jews. Jews are hard to spot in a crowd. They are harder to passively discriminate against.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 1:49:00 PM (view original):
So what exactly is wrong with me saying stop looking at stats and look at it on a case by case basis? Do tell.

Because that doesn't solve anything. It pretends that we live in a post-racial society and isn't practical. Stats are human beings. They aren't just a number. EVERY SINGLE INNOCENT BLACK PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED IS A ACTUAL INNOCENT AND GOOD HUMAN BEING.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 1:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 5/16/2018 1:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 12:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 11:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 11:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/16/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/16/2018 9:22:00 AM (view original):
I'm going to speak for CCCP. It would be where you judge each individual based on their own accomplishments. Instead of saying that guy is poor because he is black, which whether you realize it or not is what you do, you start to look at his qualifications and achievements? Do he have a HS diploma? Does he have a college degree? Does he spend his money wisely? Was he the most qualified candidate for the job that he was turned down for? Race should never even be considered.

I agree that that should be the way it is, but it simply isn't in this world right now. And I am not saying that race is the only factor. So how do we get to your proposed world?

We will get that way when people like you quit judging people based on race and start judging accomplishments and failures based on merit.

You are right though. It will be a long time before the left stops lumping everyone person in a certain ethnicity, gender, etc into groups and starts judging each person individually. It's a shame.

??? No, Because we cannot live in an imaginary world where no one is racist

Some people are racist. Some blacks are racist, some whites are racist, some Asians are racist, some hispanics are racist. You get the point.

But, it is racist to say people fail because of their race, which is what you do everyday on here. Until you start judging each for person individually, you are just as racist as the people that you complain about.

Exactly. So not everyone believes that way. Stop trying to say that we live in a perfect world. We don't.

PEOPLE DON'T FAIL SOLELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. RACE IS ONE OF MANY, MANY FACTORS.

Race is NOT a factor in failure. STOP being racist, Tang.

Factors of failure:

1. Poor choices
2. Lack of an education
3. Lack of ambition

You just said that discrimination exists.

It does, but it is not a factor in whether a person succeeds or not. We are not defined by our surroundings. This is why you Jews don't have the issues that other races do. They did not allow themselves to be defined by their circumstances.

You liberals have forced the other groups to be such victims and have held them back so far by living in the past that they haven't been able to overcome like Jews have.

It's pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

how can you say its not a factor? If a white guy gets a job over a black guy solely because he is white, that the black's guy's disadvantages do play a part in whether or not he succeeds. It is not the only factor, and it is not a factor all the time,but it can be a factor

That is a specific case that you mentioned in a generality and if a guy gets a job over a women because he is a guy then he has an advantage there too? Maybe the company prefers a guy? Its a free country and a private company why can't they hire who they please? If this same company keeps misfiring and not hiring the best candidates then the company will not maximize profits and karma prevails. I totally don't see your point here, wylie.

Two problems with this.

1. That's still a disadvantage. That person got turned down. That is a disadvantage.

2. THAT IS A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS! EXACTLY WHAT YOU ASKED FOR! AND YOU STILL SAID NO!

You said earlier that absolutely nothing would convince you of institutional racism and it certainly shows.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 5/16/2018 1:55:00 PM (view original):
out of my friends and family? very little. I try not to be friends with racists. But my friends and family are a very small portion of the population.

Same for me as well as my co workers and acquaintances. So if neither you nor I see very many if any and we are typical middle class families I would gauge, why may I not extrapolate that racists are few and far between?

I know plenty. Many, many people hate Obama simply because he is black. How many people are in the KKK now?

Posted by bad_luck on 5/16/2018 2:18:00 PM (view original):
You're naive.

Also, most racism isn't explicit or even intentional. People tend to want to be around people they relate to. They also tend to hire and promote people they relate to. When most bosses are white men, they tend to hire and promote white men.

^^^ What I have been saying

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/16/2018 2:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/16/2018 2:20:00 PM (view original):
I'm not "looking for trouble," I'm explaining to you that blacks are at a disadvantage in American society.

In your opinion and I am telling you sometimes yes and sometimes no. Depends on the person and the situation.

Hence its a debate.

You are so, so, so naive on this issue.