Posted by dahsdebater on 9/1/2022 3:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/31/2022 1:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 8/30/2022 7:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 8/26/2022 6:21:00 PM (view original):
It was so obvious that that's DeSantis and not Newsome that I guessed it before I even found the original article.

What is DeSantis doing for working people? Does he support unions? Does he support BBB? What pro-worker policies has DeSantis passed?

Gotta love the implicit assumption that Build Back Better is good for working people. Way to start out on neutral ground there, bud.

We can debate about whether it would be, but the point is that DeSantis doesn't even pretend to be actually in favor of policies that he thinks would economically benefit working people or reduce inequality; it's just culture war bullshit.

The best thing he can claim is that he kept the state open during COVID, which was arguably good, but that wasn't really to help workers, it was to own the libs.

The idea that the Republican party has all of these ideas and plans to help workers specifically is really silly imo.

But yes, BBB would be good for workers and most Americans. I'll defend that.

Here are some facts we can probably agree on.

1. Employment is not a big problem right now

2. Many of the infrastructure and environmental initiatives included in BBB have been being kicked on down the road for decades at this point.

You think these initiatives are suddenly so urgent that injecting literally trillions of new government dollars into the economy in the midst of the worst inflation in 2 generations is going to be good for the people who may already be struggling to make ends meet? That's honestly such a stupid position I don't even know how to appropriately make fun of you for it.

It is undeniable that especially in the short term, BBB would have increased inflation. HOWEVER, there is also evidence that in the long run, it would have led to a better economy and LESS inflation.

I'm not an economist, but from what I've read, the main policy Biden passed that increases inflation was the stimulus checks, not because "government was gonna spend a lot," but because it was an injection of money directly into people's pockets. Spending on social programs like childcare, energy, housing, healthcare, etc wouldn't lead to the same level of inflationary pressure because while it does make a material impact on working people's lives, it doesn't necessarily put money directly in their pockets. Obviously the exception to this is the CTC, which doesn't even exist anymore.

I think that the argument, "it's not the right time for this stuff" is a fair one, but it's undeniable that the provisions within BBB would have had a positive impact on most Americans in the long run, especially in a neutral economic environment that doesn't currently exist.

You can argue about the inflationary stuff but the reality is that it's more complicated than "government spending bad" and there is broad disagreement among economists on the issue. Most stuff that I've read has shown positive long term impacts of the policy, even in the inflationary environment we're in now. The idea that "BBB good" is "stupid" on it's face goes against most economic research on the issue.

I'll admit to not being a natural expert in the field so I generally differ to what the economic research shows.

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/1/2022 9:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 9/1/2022 8:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 9/1/2022 4:11:00 PM (view original):
An example for it being vital is the substantial money and resources that can make a giant difference in Jackson Missippi and whatever problems they still have.
They are infrastructure cases.
Jackson has zero water for drinking or bathing unless you want orange Rusty water.
Jacksin never got the hep from the state over decades.

Um but i think we need to give another few billion to Ukraine first. Ukrainians are Americans after all! Mississipians are just southerners.

Man, for a political group that by definition are supposed to oppose change, Trumpian conservatives sure do put up a lot of moving targets.

A year ago, Biden was way too soft on Russia. Now he's doing too much to help check Russian aggression. Make up your mind! (that is, tell your sources to make up your mind for you)

You know what, **** it. I'm such a good faith actor that I'm gonna steelman gg, who I hate. I don't think that GG is actually hypocritical on this issue. While you're correct that many conservatives criticized Biden for being "weak on Russia" or whatever in February, I don't think that was ever guitarguy's main argument. He's always been pretty consistent in opposing foreign intervention of almost any kind.

Moreover, he would disagree with the framing of "Russian aggression" because he would play mental gymnastics to justify why Ukraine aggressed on Russia and had it coming or whatever. He would also argue that the weapons we're sending are going to be misused by what he would argue is a corrupt government belonging to the New World Order as part of a gigantic global conspiracy.

You're welcome GG!

I'm not saying that GG would be right, but I also don't think that his objection to Biden funding Ukraine is inherently hypocritical as dahs suggested.

Posted by tangplay on 9/2/2022 1:29:00 AM (view original):
I'm not saying that GG would be right, but I also don't think that his objection to Biden funding Ukraine is inherently hypocritical as dahs suggested.

Most maga types are automatically opposed to getting involved with assisting other countries because they are isolationists -
automatically no matter what the threat is.
There was a rather large number of Lindbergh worshipping fascists that were cowards and pro authoritarian before events forced the true Americans into action they were being dissuaded to enter.

This country will always have maga types but now we know that it is more then 20% of the population.

Every major democracy has that because a certain number of people are automatically drawn to fascism and crazy and/or racist conspiracies and theories.

So it goes back to basically automatic opposition to helping immigrants or other countries unless it is a fascist state that they approve of like Russia.

There is no real thinking involved.
It is just an automatic reaction based on the need to connect to a messianic type who they can gain strength from by his giving purpose and meaning and grouping to their anger and hatred and grievance and isolationism from the mainstream.

If the Trump appointed judge says there was executive privilege then what have stopped Trump from having taken almost everything contained in the national archives.

These are the acts of a criminal shrouded by the acts of a traitor.

70% of republicans still believe that Obama was not born in the USA.
That equals 35% of the population.
The United States overall has to be the most stupid and dumb - dangerous and dumb of all high industry nations.
It is really scary.
Some call them deplorable ( obviously she was ) correct and it is by now undeniable and incontrovertible and she was the first to say it publicly.

I’m not speaking from hate. I am speaking from love of country - what is left of it - and fear and loathing that the 35% is not going away and will drive the country into autocracy by multi pronged ways.

If Trump or any other prominent Republican did shoot someone on 5th Ave the republicans will say it was no big deal and defend it every which way.

if the republicans gain the house and or the senate only Biden as the goalie can save democracy for the time being but 2 years will be lost and no more climate action would get done. If they get All3 and elect someone like DeSantis it will be game over.

Really? Mango Mussolini had that for his first two years and couldn't get a single thing passed other than his garbage tax reductions for the wealthy. These chuds don't even know what actual legislation is.

He could not get anything passed because of the filibuster. They did a lot of damage through the cabinet and secretaries and directors.
They did not use reconciliation except for the tax. They did appoint a lot of judges and Supreme Court getting a lot done through the judiciary.

The democrats get everything done through reconciliation and executive orders
and regulation and action through the cabinet and secrateries. Reconciliation has been used for bold initiatives. Trump did not use it but DeSantis could.

DeSantis is an experienced governor and would use all possible tools that he could.
Including rescinding executive orders and scaling back and slowing down both BBB
and IRA and putting in people encouraging fracking and the fossil fuel industry.
He could be good on the resistance to the effects of climate change but will probably reverse or stall or ignore the root cause like emissions.
His Attorney General could be like Barr.
He would continue what Trump did by putting in ultra conservative judges some of which are unqualified.The impact of that is huge.
Foreign policy will go back to isolationism
and that does not need help from Congress.

When I say game over I mean that he will cause so much damage regarding climate change that it could cause permanent damage and a serious setback.
And executive orders could impact diversity and and voting rights and the gun industry.

ps can you imagine 4 years of his education secretary and how the hard core Trump base will influence him and over 4 years a DOJ that won’t do anything to counter erosion of voting rights in some states via discrimination or access.
Anythind Biden to protect abortion access will be ended.
Over 4 years he could set back the country and add more people to the autocrat loving Trump base.
That could be very very serious.

Who has Demetia and Needs Psychiatric Care
Trump is now so delusional that he is out of touch with reality.

On Saturday Trump said at a rally that he had
dinner at the White House last week Mark Zuckerberg and Zuckerberg kissed his *** all night.

The brain dead crowd applauded.

At this point can someone tell me who is more of an anarchist - Antifa or the 1000 plus insurrectionists who were out to kill people and desecrate and stop Congress and bring democracy to its knees.

How about Trump and George Lindsey Graham and Rudy Guiliani and Sydney Powell and don’t leave out Steve Bannon who promote violence and riots because they won’t accept the rule of law
or poor little Antifa who never got to be considered a terrorist group no matter how the real anarchists tried their best to make it so.

I don’t even know the name of a single member of Antifa. They are just sooo dangerous and so widespread. Priests and Boy Scout leaders are far more dangerous
then those patsies.

Today, 100,000 Czechs took to the street of Prague and protested their government's support of NATO proxy war in Ukraine and the controlled demolition of Europe's economy (mostly by Klaus Schwab's WEF stooges in places of power in liberal democracies pretty much everywhere).

Bravo!

Posted by Jetson21 on 9/2/2022 1:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 9/1/2022 11:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/1/2022 9:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 9/1/2022 8:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 9/1/2022 4:11:00 PM (view original):
An example for it being vital is the substantial money and resources that can make a giant difference in Jackson Missippi and whatever problems they still have.
They are infrastructure cases.
Jackson has zero water for drinking or bathing unless you want orange Rusty water.
Jacksin never got the hep from the state over decades.

Um but i think we need to give another few billion to Ukraine first. Ukrainians are Americans after all! Mississipians are just southerners.

Man, for a political group that by definition are supposed to oppose change, Trumpian conservatives sure do put up a lot of moving targets.

A year ago, Biden was way too soft on Russia. Now he's doing too much to help check Russian aggression. Make up your mind! (that is, tell your sources to make up your mind for you)

You know what, **** it. I'm such a good faith actor that I'm gonna steelman gg, who I hate. I don't think that GG is actually hypocritical on this issue. While you're correct that many conservatives criticized Biden for being "weak on Russia" or whatever in February, I don't think that was ever guitarguy's main argument. He's always been pretty consistent in opposing foreign intervention of almost any kind.

Moreover, he would disagree with the framing of "Russian aggression" because he would play mental gymnastics to justify why Ukraine aggressed on Russia and had it coming or whatever. He would also argue that the weapons we're sending are going to be misused by what he would argue is a corrupt government belonging to the New World Order as part of a gigantic global conspiracy.

You're welcome GG!

It is a bit simpler.
1. Biden does something.
2. Say that is is bad.
3. Find a way to rationalize why it is bad, especially with anger and sneering.

There are no policy considerations or weighing of pro and con.
It is always the con and worship of the great con himself.

Though I disagree with them both, this post exchange makes very clear what should be obvious to everyone here by now: Tang is about 100x smarter than Jetson.

and they are both about 1000x smarter than you!