Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 5:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 5:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 5:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:26:00 PM (view original):
I am OK with it too being Starbucks but in this case it wasn't Starbucks. That chicken place closes Sundays? It costs them business but they don't care. If Starbucks said we will not serve Jews, I'd be OK with it. They'd lose business and shareholders would revolt.

Chick-Fil-A closing sundays is not discrimination.

I didn't say Starbucks. I said Luxxotica.

I'd go to one of their many competitors.

Luxxotica doesn't have competitors.

Of course it does.

http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/cs/company-profile.luxottica_group_spa.601abbb677bf5b69.html?aka_re=1

One is Marcolin.

Come on Tang, you're not looking great here with that comment. That would be like me saying Nike doesn't have competitors.

Doesn't Marcolin work with Luxxotica?

Competitors

Fair enough, I must have misread.

Tang, as far as your school argument, it's different. That is the government saying you are not old enough to make that decision. That is an entirely different philosophical debate. We can have it, but we probably already agree on the end result.

Yeah, at 14 you're a child. At 16 you can work.

Posted by strikeout26 on 1/29/2019 5:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2019 5:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 1/29/2019 3:44:00 PM (view original):
Maybe this will help you understand.

B_L is an author for a living. He is a very talented author. I want him to write me a book on how homosexuality is a sin and immoral. Should he have to do it or can he deny service based on his beliefs?

An author isn’t a public accommodation. That matters. Same with an artist or a public speaker or a church or a private club

Public accommodations are stores, banks, housing, restaurants, etc.

If you open one, you are free to continue practicing your religion. What you can’t do is discriminate on the basis of religion (your or theirs), race, color, sex, and nation or origin.

Despite your somewhat extreme position that the Civil Rights Act is a bad thing, it’s not. It’s a good law. It’s naive to think that the market alone deals with discrimination. It never has and it never will.

The market most certainly has. It does a great job. Why do you think the racist government in Alabama felt the need for Jim Crow laws? Because the market wasn't keeping people segregated.

Jesus Christ, that is a gross mischaracterization of the origin of Jim Crow laws.

Think that through, slowly. According to you, the people of the South, post-reconstruction, late 1800's, were integrating just fine with the newly freed black people. Well, the state governments just couldn't have that so, despite the general public's will to integrate, they passed laws to prevent integration.

Does that sound correct?

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 4:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 1/29/2019 3:36:00 PM (view original):
First off, I am against anti-discrimination laws anyways. The market takes of discrimination on its own. The government actually had to put discrimination laws into place because the market wasn't discriminating for them. People don't care who they sell to. They just want the money. The people that do care go out of business. It's one thing that I love about capitalism.

To this specific case, the baker said he would sell the gay couple a cake. He said that he would not put two dudes on top and he would not write "Jim and Bob" or whatever on it. Asking him to decorate the cake for a gay wedding is discriminating on his religious beliefs. Once again, take a step back and look at this logically.

Yeah but what if enough bakers refuse service to enough gay people? That's pretty bad for the gay people, right? Asking someone to bake a cake for a gay person is not discrimination against their belief.

On your BL argument, if I go into an occupation where I am expected to write books based on people's requests, I will be expected to do that, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

I guarantee that many authors who help write athlete's books do not agree with everything they write.

that is true, but if they refused to help write those books because they did not agree withe everything they wrote would it be fair to force them to help write the books because they were discriminating against the athlete by refusing?

Yes, from a business standpoint people would not have cared who purchased their goods or services. Those that did care would be put out of business by those who don't. That doesn't mean that they would like each other. We both know that this only happens through natural means. I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp. I assume it's because the left has such a hatred and distrust for capitalism.

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:01:00 PM (view original):
I still like Trump especially because the hateful Left hates him. Warms my heart.

that's a good reason to like someone.

Posted by wylie715 on 1/29/2019 6:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 4:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 1/29/2019 3:36:00 PM (view original):
First off, I am against anti-discrimination laws anyways. The market takes of discrimination on its own. The government actually had to put discrimination laws into place because the market wasn't discriminating for them. People don't care who they sell to. They just want the money. The people that do care go out of business. It's one thing that I love about capitalism.

To this specific case, the baker said he would sell the gay couple a cake. He said that he would not put two dudes on top and he would not write "Jim and Bob" or whatever on it. Asking him to decorate the cake for a gay wedding is discriminating on his religious beliefs. Once again, take a step back and look at this logically.

Yeah but what if enough bakers refuse service to enough gay people? That's pretty bad for the gay people, right? Asking someone to bake a cake for a gay person is not discrimination against their belief.

On your BL argument, if I go into an occupation where I am expected to write books based on people's requests, I will be expected to do that, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

I guarantee that many authors who help write athlete's books do not agree with everything they write.

that is true, but if they refused to help write those books because they did not agree withe everything they wrote would it be fair to force them to help write the books because they were discriminating against the athlete by refusing?

Contract author/ghost writer/whatever isn't a public accommodation.

These laws don't apply to them.

Posted by The Taint on 1/29/2019 5:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:01:00 PM (view original):
Private prisons would be 10000000x better than Gov't ran ones.

I'm sure all your experience in such matters lead you to this opinion

he has 2 friends who were in a privately run prison and two others who were in a federal one, so he knows.



I kid...

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:01:00 PM (view original):
Private prisons would be 10000000x better than Gov't ran ones.

This isn't true. Private prisons are much worse than state run prisons.

Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2019 6:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 1/29/2019 6:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 4:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 1/29/2019 3:36:00 PM (view original):
First off, I am against anti-discrimination laws anyways. The market takes of discrimination on its own. The government actually had to put discrimination laws into place because the market wasn't discriminating for them. People don't care who they sell to. They just want the money. The people that do care go out of business. It's one thing that I love about capitalism.

To this specific case, the baker said he would sell the gay couple a cake. He said that he would not put two dudes on top and he would not write "Jim and Bob" or whatever on it. Asking him to decorate the cake for a gay wedding is discriminating on his religious beliefs. Once again, take a step back and look at this logically.

Yeah but what if enough bakers refuse service to enough gay people? That's pretty bad for the gay people, right? Asking someone to bake a cake for a gay person is not discrimination against their belief.

On your BL argument, if I go into an occupation where I am expected to write books based on people's requests, I will be expected to do that, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

I guarantee that many authors who help write athlete's books do not agree with everything they write.

that is true, but if they refused to help write those books because they did not agree withe everything they wrote would it be fair to force them to help write the books because they were discriminating against the athlete by refusing?

Contract author/ghost writer/whatever isn't a public accommodation.

These laws don't apply to them.

There is no difference between a baker and an author. They both provides goods/services to the public.

Posted by strikeout26 on 1/29/2019 5:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 5:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 4:53:00 PM (view original):
The Left is the Progressive Left like the Alt Right and just cause you are not doesn't mean others feel the same way. Check out YouTube. He has mobs out to get him. LOL.

Progressives are not the alt right, lol. And yes, there are extremists. Ben Shapiro loves to cherry pick and argue against only the most extremist positions. It would be like me saying many in the KKK voted for Trump > KKK is racist > Everyone who voted for Trump is racist.

Or simplifying conservative positions on immigration to 'close borders'.

Progressives are equally bad IMO. Supress free speech, hate Israel, preach white privilege (racist), force me to use pronouns I don't want to use and label those that disagree with them as racist, sexist, homophobe, Islamaphobe.

Vile and evil people they are. Case in Point is bad_luck and dino too.

Please leave personal attacks out this thread. Thanks.

I don't think cccp is capable of leaving personal attacks out of any thread.

While we have a break in the action, I get the feeling that others have been itching for a good political debate as much as myself. We haven't had one in a long time.

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 5:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 5:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 5:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 5:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 1/29/2019 5:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 5:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/29/2019 4:58:00 PM (view original):
No we would have bakeries that didn't care and those that did? I see nothing wrong with that. If I go to a restaurant that doesn't serve kosher, I can leave and go to one that does. LOL.

Not serving kosher is not the same as refusing to serve. I am a vegetarian. It's not discrimination to not have vegetarian options.

The baker was willing to serve. He wasn't willing to put 2 dudes or "Jim and Bob" on the top of the cake. CCCP's argument is actually very similar.

Would he have served a cake with "Jim and Kim" on it?

If he didn't serve cake with toppers, that's fine. If he changed his policy based on preference, that's not fine.

Why? Just go to a different bakery. I don't get why people want to die on that hill.

Many people view discrimination laws as an extremely important hill.

But you're forcing the baker to do something he is not comfortable doing? That to you is not discrimination?

Nope.

That is the Leftist POV. Hence I rail against it so vehemently. Leftist to me is anti capitalist.

well, you have told me numerous times that I am a leftist, but I am not anti capitalist. If the baker doesn't want to make a cake for a same sex couple, they can find another baker who does. If a restaurant doesn't want to serve Jews (they are great in a light wine sauce) I will find a different restaurant.
Its the same as the argument we were having about some guy identifying as a woman, and being able to use the women's restroom or locker room. In that case, BL was saying they man/woman is uncomfortable using the men's room becaude he identifies as a woman. His comfort level is more important that all the women who may be uncomfortable with him/her in the women's restroom/locker room. However in the baker's case, BL (and tang) say just the opposite. The baker's discomfort at serving the same sex couple is not as important as all the same sex couples who would he would refuse service to.

Posted by strikeout26 on 1/29/2019 6:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/29/2019 6:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 1/29/2019 6:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/29/2019 4:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 1/29/2019 3:36:00 PM (view original):
First off, I am against anti-discrimination laws anyways. The market takes of discrimination on its own. The government actually had to put discrimination laws into place because the market wasn't discriminating for them. People don't care who they sell to. They just want the money. The people that do care go out of business. It's one thing that I love about capitalism.

To this specific case, the baker said he would sell the gay couple a cake. He said that he would not put two dudes on top and he would not write "Jim and Bob" or whatever on it. Asking him to decorate the cake for a gay wedding is discriminating on his religious beliefs. Once again, take a step back and look at this logically.

Yeah but what if enough bakers refuse service to enough gay people? That's pretty bad for the gay people, right? Asking someone to bake a cake for a gay person is not discrimination against their belief.

On your BL argument, if I go into an occupation where I am expected to write books based on people's requests, I will be expected to do that, regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

I guarantee that many authors who help write athlete's books do not agree with everything they write.

that is true, but if they refused to help write those books because they did not agree withe everything they wrote would it be fair to force them to help write the books because they were discriminating against the athlete by refusing?

Contract author/ghost writer/whatever isn't a public accommodation.

These laws don't apply to them.

There is no difference between a baker and an author. They both provides goods/services to the public.

No, there is a difference. A contract author is not a public accommodation. They don't have to provide service to anyone, they can pick and choose. Bakers, at least public bakeries, cannot pick and choose.