Norm, do you realize how complicated it would be to schedule a 4-way conference challenge? It would most certainly end with either divorce/flunking out of school/getting fired for whoever undertook the task. If someone were to set up something like that, they would have the eternal gratitude of all the coaches in said conferences.

However, I'll say this: right now the BCS conferences of Wooden D3 are probably:

Upstate
MIAA
NAC
Midwest
ASC

I can't figure out who the 6th would be.

The asc is pretty weak I will not lie we are only 3 teams deep on any given season but I like my chances.

I like a challenge of putting a spreadsheet together, maybe a season away from the 4 way challenge but I'm sure we can take suggestions and get this going. Heck I maybe the worst of the rest but that doesn't mean I can't participate and bring the MIAA down. Something like 1 vs all other 1s from the previous seasons (4 or 5 other conferences) and 2 vs 2 and etc....? I know teams can fluctuate from yr to yr but I'm willing to take all suggestions.

NCWC might not even make the NT this year (need to win the CT obviously), but if we do, I guarantee it'll **** off some 1-3 seed to have to play us in the 1st round..awful RPI but a pretty dangerous team

i'm not in for a challenge. not wussy, its just horrible for RPI's. dont really feel like getting into it (long explanation) but i'm out and i'll recommend to my fellow upstaters not to play..

i would do something where its for one of the 10 games. Say NAC vs Upstate for one season... then we play MIAA then next...

or select battles. say four teams play the NAC, four teams play the MIAA, etc....

as long as its for one game, i'm fine with it, but anything more than that and it starts being really bad for our conference.

oh, and case, hamilton, brandeis, and hobart should all be on that contender list. take records out of the equation and those four teams have the same talent and coaching as anyone on that list.

I wasn't looking at records when I made the list, I was looking at the rosters of all the RPI top 50. I stand by it. I don't think either Hamilton or Brandeis has a shot to win it all this year, and I think Case is a longshot as well. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, especially if they care to put their money where their mouth is.

nice work stirring things up in here... i haven't had time to look at the teams in d3 very closely this season, but will say this about the conferences and teams with shots to win it all: there are about 5 coaches in the Upstate, and maybe 8 who are not, who I would put into the convo about winning it all just about any season.

I am definitely not including myself on that contenders list, and think I'm about the 6th-8th best coach in the UCAC, where there's no other conference I'd be worse than 3rd. Maybe 4th, if I'm being generous to someone else.

I'd put any Upstate south coach in that same position... and the North is really just now getting up and running, so this NAC talk seems premature to me.

The Upstate coaches all have the reputations, and year-in, year-out, they are definitely the deepest conference. This season, however, I don't see a single roster that I think can win 6 straight NT games. I do see that in George Fox, Monmouth, Thomas, etc.

As for the NAC talk, none of our coaches have the great track records that the Upstate guys do, but we all know each other, we have all learned this game from the same proven formula, and our ascent speaks for itself. The NAC was the 26th RPI conference when I joined, now it's routinely in the top 10. Also we've averaged the 2nd best points-per-recruit (going by the preseason CI bulletin, FWIW) in the last 5 seasons (behind the MIAA). I'm not saying we're better than any of the top conferences, but I am saying that we belong in the conversation.

Wronoj, your team lost convincingly in non-conference this year to middling Elms, who finished 8-8 in conference, and was probably our 6th best team. You've been a better coach than Gene previously, and you probably still are, but in the post-potential world, the playing field has been leveled considerably, and a lot of what happened before that is kinda obsolete.

I take a look at the NAC and their top four teams. They all run press, and three of the four run FB. In the upstate not one team runs a FB and only one team runs the press exclusively.

What happens when the engine change comes around?

The upstate is full of coaches that have adjusted and overcome, season after season. We've dealt with the -5/DT, the slowdown zones, the superclasses, pretty much everything. so we can handle this little magical FB/press thing going on right now.

We've outlasted all the 'fads' of HD and continue to dominate. In this "era" of FB/press we've won two of the last three NT's as well.

so that leaves you two options. There's two lists that you can land on. Where you land is completely up to you guys.


We're good and give the upstate some great competition for top conference but when it comes down to it, they are #1
ACC
Big East
Pac 10
SEC


or

R.I.P.

UAA
Penn AC
Heartland
Empire 8

The way I see it, you can run whatever you want. It's a free country. I came into WIS as a newbie and saw that MBBC ran a FB off and FCP def. I thought it would be cool to have a program like the old Loyola Marymount or UNLV teams of the early 90's. I don't have 25 teams in other worlds like other coaches so I pretty much learned on the fly, season by season. I researched other teams and studied how they recruited and game planned. I also bugged the crap out of Rails, picking his brain because he was very successful using the combo. I ran the combo in season 20 and I'll run it until they take it away. When and if they do, I'll adapt and adjust just like any other good coach.

I respect the Upstate and every coach in the conference. But for you to say the FB/FCP is a fad devalues my past success and to that I take issue. You have said some nice things about my program in your conference corner and I appreciate that. Ultimately, coaches who can truly coach in this game will find a way to win regardless of the off/def system.

The MIAA doesn't actively recruit champion coaches on the forums to join our conference, but maybe we should start.

I second Norm's thoughts. When I took over Beloit's program, they were running a FB and M2M, and in the course of rebuilding the program I decided to switch defenses to FCP. It made sense to me to run the two together, so I could recruit fast, athletic players. That was before the FB/FCP combination was common, and, in fact, there were very few coaches who ran the FB offense successfully - at least in DIII Wooden. Indeed, my recollection is that most coaches, vets included, spurned the FB as a handicapped offense with little chance to succeed. As far as I know, what changed all of this was Norm's success at MBB.

And let's not forget that there has already been an adjustment in the engine designed to make this particular offense/defense combination less successful (I'm referring to the STA changes), and while some coaches abandoned the FB and/or FCP as a result, others of us made changes in our recruiting and gameplanning.

Good coaches will find a way to adjust and win no matter the circumstances.

I agree with my fellow press/breakers. I started this game in November '07, on the advice of a friend, and for the most part, I've had one team the whole time. I switched it over to press/break because I've contended for a long time that the Pitino Kentucky teams were the best college hoops teams I ever saw (92-97), and used them as my example. If I were a coach in real life, I'd do the same. If the engine changes (which it sort of has already), like Norm and Paul, I'll adapt, and do whatever it takes to win. It's remarkable how you Upstate guys get so defensive over a little friendly competition to your throne. Just because the NAC coaches don't have 14 teams apiece, or read the dev. chats religiously, or look at the game as a giant math problem, or analyze the ins and outs of the sim engine, doesn't mean we're not for real. We're just a bunch of friends who were getting tired of fantasy baseball and needed a new game. I just try and do what I think would work on a basketball court, and don't worry about what is considered a fad and what is now "obsolete." If the engine changes, I won't be the first to know it. This is a basketball simulation, and I'm gonna continue to use my basketball "knowledge" to try and win games. From what I've seen, regardless of off/def combo, the team with better talent usually prevails... so I doubt that will ever change much.

The NAC isn't going anywhere, polo. The only thing that will stop us is boredom.

whoa, whoa, whoa....

ok before i start let me warn you that its 3am and i'm a tad intxoicated, so forgive if i dont make sense

i was never offended brad, or getting defensive. sorry if i said anything harsh. i just love a little chirpyness. trash talk.

if the the upstate were #2 to the nac for the next 10 seasons i would love it, because of the competition. it adds to the dgame. but i'll sure as hell rally the troops to try and stop taht

norm, you are on my shorrt list of top coaches in the game. you kick ***. sorry to offend in any way.

as to the press. i personally believe its got a slight advantage over the other defense. thats it. sorry to imply antying. thats just a personal opinion. i signed up for a team in knight just to test out the press and see if it was all its been hyped up to be in the forums.

yea i recruit champion coaches. its not to beat up on little schools. the appeal of hd to me is the "community". most of you are newer coaches and were not around when hd was killer. in the comunity sense. game play has gotten beter but the comradery is nto the same.

we got a goal of 10 nt teams and getting a .6000 rpi.

but werre really more about a cool conference in a cool world.

i think some of you coaches that only have one team dont realize how awsome wooden is. no other world forum has this type of dialogue. or these types of rivalries.

and we suck people in. wronoj was one of "you guys" for YEARS in wooden. then he joined us. for about 15 seasons we had an "honorary" 13th member in Lycoming. i could rattle off a million of the cool little rivalrysover the years. but really i cant, cuz im pretty buzzded.

so sorry to peeev anyone off. i just loved the initial post. stired some **** up. look what its created.

bascically THIS WORLD RULES!!!!!! hope everyone has a merry xmas and GGGOOOOD NIGHT!!

wow its 4am. crap tomorow will be a loooooooooooooong day. gnite and

UPSTATE RULES!!!!!!!!!!

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA

AND A LITTLE MESSAGE TO MBB, LASSAL AND GFOX. YOU GUYS ARE SOOOO LUCK YOU MADE THE NT. CUZ YOU DONT HAVE TO FACE NYU AND THE FORCE THEY WILL BE IN THE PI. THE PI IS WHERE ITS AT THIS EYAR YYAAAAA

IF I MAKE IT TAHT IS