Posted by Jetson21 on 6/3/2022 4:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/3/2022 2:12:00 PM (view original):
"Just an idea, but maybe both sides should quit viewing the other as bad people and just learn to have conversations. "
Totally agree. Yes, there are bad people on the Republican side, but there are also bad people on the democratic side. There are bad people on both sides of just about any issue. I remember once saying that not everyone who voted for Trump is a racist idiot, that some of them had what they consider valid reasons for voting for him, and boy, did I get **** for saying that. Those valid reasons may not make sense to me, but that does not make them less valid for those people.

this sounds like Trump.
” there are good people on both sides”
very simple point of view - it is not wisdom to say that.

Look at reality - do republicans in congress work in good faith - NO!

As far as rank and file citizens - they vote for the monsters in congress knowing full well what they are getting.

Whether some are good people is meaningless.
They vote for something they are getting usually rooted in some type of racism and anger but not in any type of constructive goals.
They don’t care much about collective progress - it just does not float their boat.

That’s a generalization but a pretty good one.

And I can call insurrectionists and kkk and nazis bad people and if you can’t that is on you.
There are others that I won’t consider bad people like the the KO guy but i think he is too facile with the shallow and condescending views of right wing ideology.
At some point some of these people do become bad people by the type of things they come to willingly embrace.

There are good people on both sides, whether you want to admit it or not. I have no problem with calling nazis or KKK members bad people. Calling an average person a bad person because they don't agree with your point of view goes against a lot of what America is supposed to stand for...freedom of speech, freedom of religion..remember those things? Maybe people vote for some of those "monsters in congress" because that is what is available for them to vote for. Obviously not all of them...many folks who voted for Trump, or MTG, or Boebert or Gaetz are bad people. Many who voted for Obama and Biden are bad people. There are bad people everywhere on every side of the equation.

Posted by wylie715 on 6/3/2022 8:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/3/2022 4:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/3/2022 2:12:00 PM (view original):
"Just an idea, but maybe both sides should quit viewing the other as bad people and just learn to have conversations. "
Totally agree. Yes, there are bad people on the Republican side, but there are also bad people on the democratic side. There are bad people on both sides of just about any issue. I remember once saying that not everyone who voted for Trump is a racist idiot, that some of them had what they consider valid reasons for voting for him, and boy, did I get **** for saying that. Those valid reasons may not make sense to me, but that does not make them less valid for those people.

this sounds like Trump.
” there are good people on both sides”
very simple point of view - it is not wisdom to say that.

Look at reality - do republicans in congress work in good faith - NO!

As far as rank and file citizens - they vote for the monsters in congress knowing full well what they are getting.

Whether some are good people is meaningless.
They vote for something they are getting usually rooted in some type of racism and anger but not in any type of constructive goals.
They don’t care much about collective progress - it just does not float their boat.

That’s a generalization but a pretty good one.

And I can call insurrectionists and kkk and nazis bad people and if you can’t that is on you.
There are others that I won’t consider bad people like the the KO guy but i think he is too facile with the shallow and condescending views of right wing ideology.
At some point some of these people do become bad people by the type of things they come to willingly embrace.

There are good people on both sides, whether you want to admit it or not. I have no problem with calling nazis or KKK members bad people. Calling an average person a bad person because they don't agree with your point of view goes against a lot of what America is supposed to stand for...freedom of speech, freedom of religion..remember those things? Maybe people vote for some of those "monsters in congress" because that is what is available for them to vote for. Obviously not all of them...many folks who voted for Trump, or MTG, or Boebert or Gaetz are bad people. Many who voted for Obama and Biden are bad people. There are bad people everywhere on every side of the equation.

it is too simplistic to talk about good and bad people,
let’s agree that the various types of white nationalists are bad people and for the rest I will say that for the vast majority of Federal GOP members i don’t think that their hearts are in the right places and they refuse to protect democracy so i will not consider them to be “good “ people.

You and I are probably not thinking of the same things when the words good and bad are thrown around.
I think you are thinking too literally.

there is a R congressman in New York up for re-election who just quit. He just came out in favor of a ban on assault weapons and ammunition.
That makes me think of him as probably a good person who was willing to do the right thing even if his career was imperiled. Without knowing much about him i would guess someone trying to save lives his career be damned is my kind of politician.
Unfortunately the New York GOP harassed him through media and phone calls and threats and even posted his address and cell number.
Those are people that I will label as bad people.

Dont take it so seriously and literally.
It isn’t an exact science.

Posted by wylie715 on 6/3/2022 8:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/3/2022 4:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/3/2022 2:12:00 PM (view original):
"Just an idea, but maybe both sides should quit viewing the other as bad people and just learn to have conversations. "
Totally agree. Yes, there are bad people on the Republican side, but there are also bad people on the democratic side. There are bad people on both sides of just about any issue. I remember once saying that not everyone who voted for Trump is a racist idiot, that some of them had what they consider valid reasons for voting for him, and boy, did I get **** for saying that. Those valid reasons may not make sense to me, but that does not make them less valid for those people.

this sounds like Trump.
” there are good people on both sides”
very simple point of view - it is not wisdom to say that.

Look at reality - do republicans in congress work in good faith - NO!

As far as rank and file citizens - they vote for the monsters in congress knowing full well what they are getting.

Whether some are good people is meaningless.
They vote for something they are getting usually rooted in some type of racism and anger but not in any type of constructive goals.
They don’t care much about collective progress - it just does not float their boat.

That’s a generalization but a pretty good one.

And I can call insurrectionists and kkk and nazis bad people and if you can’t that is on you.
There are others that I won’t consider bad people like the the KO guy but i think he is too facile with the shallow and condescending views of right wing ideology.
At some point some of these people do become bad people by the type of things they come to willingly embrace.

There are good people on both sides, whether you want to admit it or not. I have no problem with calling nazis or KKK members bad people. Calling an average person a bad person because they don't agree with your point of view goes against a lot of what America is supposed to stand for...freedom of speech, freedom of religion..remember those things? Maybe people vote for some of those "monsters in congress" because that is what is available for them to vote for. Obviously not all of them...many folks who voted for Trump, or MTG, or Boebert or Gaetz are bad people. Many who voted for Obama and Biden are bad people. There are bad people everywhere on every side of the equation.

btw - labeling people who hold certain values as “good” or “bad” in the ways that i define it does not effect someone’s freedom of religion or speech.

You have *** backwards. It is my freedom of speech to say what I think.
Thats what you should be remembering.

At least i don’t consign people to hell for having different religious views then my own.

Thats a lot worse then using 2 general labels to sum up for me who wants the country to be great and better and those motivated by greed or racism or what I keep calling an antisocial FU attitude.. as in Rand Paul types.

just like it is their freedom of speech to say what they think. They should not try to silence you and you should not try to silence them. You can and should voice your disagreement, but just because you disagree that does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I may agree with you as to what will make this country great, but other people may have different ideas as to what will make this country great. They are entitled to their ideas just like you are. That does not make them not great Americans, and your (and I probably agree with most of them) and your ideas don't make you a great American.

You also keep talking about politicians. In my opinion, most politicians don't care what you or I think. Most politicians will say and do whatever they need to say and do to get elected and re-elected. If it happens to benefit the country, great, but if it doesn't, they don't care. I have always said show me an honest politician and I will show you a failed politician. They are one and the same. So, when I talk about good and bad people I am not talking about politicians. Yes, some of them may be better than most, but they all still do what is best for themselves in the long run if they want to have any power.

My vote will not surprise you at all. I didn’t vote for president in 2016 and I voted for Jo Jorgensen in 2020. I lean more libertarian than anything. I think most people do. They just don’t realize it.

Strikeout, any thoughts on where the libertarian party is headed right now? They just elected a super anti-woke, right wing caucus to lead the party.

I thought Jo Jorgensen was pretty cool, but if the libertarian party is just going to be the Republican party across the board except they are OK with drugs and don't like war, that's not really a niche.

I haven’t really followed it at all, but the Libertarian Party is ****. The point of parties is to fundraise and win elections. They ain’t very good at either. My ideologies lean libertarian (not crazy Ayn Rand libertarian, but the “we have a social responsibility to help our neighbor without government having to do it libertarian), but I mainly consider myself politically homeless.

I want government to have as little power as possible. There’s a Republican running for something or another here in SC that has “I know how to get things done” as his slogan on his yard signs. I wouldn’t, in a million years, vote for that guy. I don’t want government to get things done. When they do, they screw things up.

This is the dividing line between the parties. Republicans want the status quo, which makes sense. That’s kind of the definition of conservatism. Democrats understand that government sucks, but that it holds ton of power so they think that if they can take control of those levers of power they can reform it into something good. And true libertarians want to strip government of power except for what is absolutely necessary.

And yeah, I liked Jorgensen. She was a good choice. Very smart lady.

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 12:22:00 AM (view original):
just like it is their freedom of speech to say what they think. They should not try to silence you and you should not try to silence them. You can and should voice your disagreement, but just because you disagree that does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I may agree with you as to what will make this country great, but other people may have different ideas as to what will make this country great. They are entitled to their ideas just like you are. That does not make them not great Americans, and your (and I probably agree with most of them) and your ideas don't make you a great American.

You also keep talking about politicians. In my opinion, most politicians don't care what you or I think. Most politicians will say and do whatever they need to say and do to get elected and re-elected. If it happens to benefit the country, great, but if it doesn't, they don't care. I have always said show me an honest politician and I will show you a failed politician. They are one and the same. So, when I talk about good and bad people I am not talking about politicians. Yes, some of them may be better than most, but they all still do what is best for themselves in the long run if they want to have any power.

you keep saying things i’m not saying.
It is not for you to tell me that I cannot call certain people “bad” people.
You are the guy who has said that you could not hate Hitler because you don’t know him.

You should be eternally humiliated for such a comment and belief.

Jo Jorgensen was horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible.
And would if she got all her wishes bring the United States to its knees and bring on World War 3 with more and more dangerous nuke countries and a new type Neville Chamberlain concept of world order.

Not voting in 2016 was giving Trump half a vote.
It is like saying you don’t have skin in the race.
Im sure glad that I voted for the candidate who won the popular vote against Trump and kept my state from going to Trump.
And helped defeat him in my state in 2020 to contribute to his electoral loss.
My vote made a difference.

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 12:22:00 AM (view original):
just like it is their freedom of speech to say what they think. They should not try to silence you and you should not try to silence them. You can and should voice your disagreement, but just because you disagree that does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I may agree with you as to what will make this country great, but other people may have different ideas as to what will make this country great. They are entitled to their ideas just like you are. That does not make them not great Americans, and your (and I probably agree with most of them) and your ideas don't make you a great American.

You also keep talking about politicians. In my opinion, most politicians don't care what you or I think. Most politicians will say and do whatever they need to say and do to get elected and re-elected. If it happens to benefit the country, great, but if it doesn't, they don't care. I have always said show me an honest politician and I will show you a failed politician. They are one and the same. So, when I talk about good and bad people I am not talking about politicians. Yes, some of them may be better than most, but they all still do what is best for themselves in the long run if they want to have any power.

you keep saying things i’m not saying.
It is not for you to tell me that I cannot call certain people “bad” people.
You are the guy who has said that you could not hate Hitler because you don’t know him.

You should be eternally humiliated for such a comment and belief.

Find me one time that I ever said that people are not entitled to their opinions.
You must be smoking something to say that.
And when did I suggest that it matters to me what politicians think of me.

I have a passion. I’m not some spineless jellyfish who has to play footsty because no one should criticize anyone which you seem to advocate because you have to know someone first.

If people who know that democracy is at real risk don’t have true passion they are not part of the army trying to keep this country from becoming a banana republic.

When it comes to politicians I know them more then well enough by how they deal with legislation and the promises they make and the stands they take.
I don’t care about what they secretly think.
I know them by what they do or refuse to do.

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/4/2022 7:37:00 AM (view original):
I haven’t really followed it at all, but the Libertarian Party is ****. The point of parties is to fundraise and win elections. They ain’t very good at either. My ideologies lean libertarian (not crazy Ayn Rand libertarian, but the “we have a social responsibility to help our neighbor without government having to do it libertarian), but I mainly consider myself politically homeless.

I want government to have as little power as possible. There’s a Republican running for something or another here in SC that has “I know how to get things done” as his slogan on his yard signs. I wouldn’t, in a million years, vote for that guy. I don’t want government to get things done. When they do, they screw things up.

This is the dividing line between the parties. Republicans want the status quo, which makes sense. That’s kind of the definition of conservatism. Democrats understand that government sucks, but that it holds ton of power so they think that if they can take control of those levers of power they can reform it into something good. And true libertarians want to strip government of power except for what is absolutely necessary.

Honestly, the libertarian party is a bit of a clownshow. Very fun to laugh at. And sometimes the state parties say something insane on social media, and that gets passed around.

I have a lot of respect for principled libertarians and anarchists. Most self-proclaimed libertarians are just conservatives who say they hate the government but support all the same **** as the Republican party (with the exception of being against the war on drugs).. That's not libertarianism. Jo Jorgensen seemed actually principled.

Fun fact: libertarianism was actually invented as a form of anti-state communist politics. It only got co-opted by the right in the 20th century.

Keyword is “anti-State”. If true Marxism took place, it wouldn’t really bother me because it would be a natural progression. It never will because it defies human nature, but if it did it would be okay. Marxism requires no government. What we saw in the 20th century was not Marxism in the slightest and it led to hundreds of millions of deaths.

I always think it’s funny when people say Antifa are anarchists. They are the total opposite of anarchists. They are tyrants. “Do what we say or we’ll give you the Andy Ngo treatment.”

Yeah, the libertarian party is for sure a clown show. That’s an axiom if I’ve ever heard one. But let’s be real. All of the political parties are clown shows. Have you heard our current Vice President and president give a speech? Did you ever hear a speech from our previous president? Despite what people think of him our last VP was a pretty classy guy, but for the most part they’re all clowns.

I’m curious. Do you consider me to be a principled libertarian or a closeted conservative? I’m curious how I come across to people. It’s sometimes hard to gauge yourself. I do know the right considers me a liberal and a lot on the left consider me right of Atilla the Hun. I guess I can take that as I’m pretty much in the center. I don’t know. I ask you because I know you’ll shoot me straight.

Posted by tangplay on 6/4/2022 1:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 6/4/2022 7:37:00 AM (view original):
I haven’t really followed it at all, but the Libertarian Party is ****. The point of parties is to fundraise and win elections. They ain’t very good at either. My ideologies lean libertarian (not crazy Ayn Rand libertarian, but the “we have a social responsibility to help our neighbor without government having to do it libertarian), but I mainly consider myself politically homeless.

I want government to have as little power as possible. There’s a Republican running for something or another here in SC that has “I know how to get things done” as his slogan on his yard signs. I wouldn’t, in a million years, vote for that guy. I don’t want government to get things done. When they do, they screw things up.

This is the dividing line between the parties. Republicans want the status quo, which makes sense. That’s kind of the definition of conservatism. Democrats understand that government sucks, but that it holds ton of power so they think that if they can take control of those levers of power they can reform it into something good. And true libertarians want to strip government of power except for what is absolutely necessary.

Honestly, the libertarian party is a bit of a clownshow. Very fun to laugh at. And sometimes the state parties say something insane on social media, and that gets passed around.

I have a lot of respect for principled libertarians and anarchists. Most self-proclaimed libertarians are just conservatives who say they hate the government but support all the same **** as the Republican party (with the exception of being against the war on drugs).. That's not libertarianism. Jo Jorgensen seemed actually principled.

Fun fact: libertarianism was actually invented as a form of anti-state communist politics. It only got co-opted by the right in the 20th century.

Actually if you look at her policies she is an awful like Rand Paul and that is plenty awful.
They may both be principled with absolutely awful principles.

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:43:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 6/4/2022 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 6/4/2022 12:22:00 AM (view original):
just like it is their freedom of speech to say what they think. They should not try to silence you and you should not try to silence them. You can and should voice your disagreement, but just because you disagree that does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I may agree with you as to what will make this country great, but other people may have different ideas as to what will make this country great. They are entitled to their ideas just like you are. That does not make them not great Americans, and your (and I probably agree with most of them) and your ideas don't make you a great American.

You also keep talking about politicians. In my opinion, most politicians don't care what you or I think. Most politicians will say and do whatever they need to say and do to get elected and re-elected. If it happens to benefit the country, great, but if it doesn't, they don't care. I have always said show me an honest politician and I will show you a failed politician. They are one and the same. So, when I talk about good and bad people I am not talking about politicians. Yes, some of them may be better than most, but they all still do what is best for themselves in the long run if they want to have any power.

you keep saying things i’m not saying.
It is not for you to tell me that I cannot call certain people “bad” people.
You are the guy who has said that you could not hate Hitler because you don’t know him.

You should be eternally humiliated for such a comment and belief.

Find me one time that I ever said that people are not entitled to their opinions.
You must be smoking something to say that.
And when did I suggest that it matters to me what politicians think of me.

I have a passion. I’m not some spineless jellyfish who has to play footsty because no one should criticize anyone which you seem to advocate because you have to know someone first.

If people who know that democracy is at real risk don’t have true passion they are not part of the army trying to keep this country from becoming a banana republic.

When it comes to politicians I know them more then well enough by how they deal with legislation and the promises they make and the stands they take.
I don’t care about what they secretly think.
I know them by what they do or refuse to do.

I don't hate Hitler. I hate what he did. When did I suggest that it matters to you what politicians think of you? Politicians don't think about you. You can call whomever you want a bad person. It just seems you call anyone who disagrees with you a bad person. That is not always the case. I don't know if you ever said people aren't entitled to their opinions and I don't care enough to look. What you have implied is that anyone who's opinion does not match yours is an idiot and wrong.
So, even though you claim you don't call people names, you basically just called me a spineless jellyfish (along with many other names you have called me in the past). You can call me whatever you want. I really don't care what anyone here thinks of me, since they don't know me. I think I care even less what you think of me. Just like strikeout, I think I will block you now. It's not worth my time to read what you write or comment on it, so I won't.