Posted by ashamael on 9/30/2010 3:57:00 PM (view original):
Anybody else think we may have gone overboard with the salary increases?  I think the increase on 3pt shooting, rebounding, higher usage offense and the first couple of % increases were enough... I haven't tried yet, but I'm pretty sure making real life teams is going to be impossible now.  I know I have had tremendous trouble building an OL team.

edit:  nvm on the not building real teams... it's possible... sort of

Wayyyyyyy overboard.  Back to the days when Dolph Schayes was A+ on anyteam.  I tried to build a couple of OL teams and the only way you will get more than one of the original cookie cutter players is to play some high minute donkeys in virtually all other positions.  I have yet to put together a team that will shoot 50% and get any of the other necessary components. 

This  thread shows why the old, much simplier SIM was much "better".  There was a lot less to argue about.  Face it, no matter what WIS does, they are going to have half the people saying great job and half the people saying what a scr*wed-up mess.  Trash all the garbage and go back to basics - KISS.

the best part is that seble hasn't posted here since before he released this version.  I guess we might hear from him after the 10-11 season ends.  If we're still around.  The more I look at this release, the less I like it.

I don't think Seble will be posting anytime soon.  Given the grief he has received over the last couple of years I doubt that he is going to admit that anything he has done is nothing more than trying to make way to many people happy.  If it takes two more years to correct this without doubt the basketball portion of WIS will cease to exist. I have for the past couple of days tried to put together a team that would be in any way enjoyable to play.  The best you can do is to take meaningless players with the highest minutes to even get to the minutes needed to play without constantly playing the unknown rookies given at the start of each season.in the open leagues. I guess the only thing that would correct this to a point would be for everyone to play theme leagues, however due to the loss of patrons the theme leagues are almost impossible to fill. Some of those have been open for more than a year now.

The only quick fix that I can see is to set up a voting site where the top fifty players vote on how much to raise the Open League total salary to the amount that would satisfy the majority of the voters.  The reason I think the number of voters should be limited is this.  The top 50 players in basketball obviously spend the most money and play more than others or at least that is my thought. Those players would be notified by email and a notification somewhere on the BB site to encourage those to vote.  This needs to be done as fast as possible to keep interest in playing. Set a time line to close the bidding and however many votes there are will be used to determine the salary increase.

I have no idea what other areas or problems are significant based on this release and at this point I really don't care. The obvious problem now is not being able to put together a team that has any kind of offense, defense or anything else that matters. Other problems can be fixed given time but if this is not fixed ASAP then I for one will be leaving something that I truly enjoy.

last couple years? seble has been due grief for at least 4 years and more and has been getting it (I thank you) - the turn was taken back then when we started talking about valuating the 42m cap to real life team norm

you dont know what happened when and you shouldnt talk about what's happened since then if you dont know - the decision was made a long time ago


(or that's what I gathered from my research - I'm a noob too so what should I know?)

What's everyone's problem?  I don't have a problem putting together a team that seems interesting and realistic to me.  If you're expecting to have enough salary to sign five all-time greats, join a theme league.  I have no issue with an open league reflecting real life team quality (and you can even do a little better).  Everyone complains when it's too easy to make a team that shoots 50% from the field and then complains when it's too hard to make a team that shoots 50% from the field.  What the heck do you guys all want?  Engine changes would be nice, sure, but given that those aren't coming, the salary changes seem fine and interesting in that they'll force people to come up with some creative ideas (honestly I'm glad I'll now have to have some more scrubs on my team - that's where the game gets interesting, when you have to cover up some weaknesses).  

As someone else pointed out, you can come within $700k of building the 2010 Magic who had the second best record in the league and you can actually create the 2010 LA Lakers (who, if memory served, won the championship).  That sounds like you can create a feasible team to me.  You can also almost create the 1991 Bulls, the 1987 Lakers, and probably other championship teams that I don't have the time to test right now.   Get over the fact that your teams won't be posting ridiculous numbers as easily (isn't that what we all wanted?).  If you're having trouble, start with one of these teams I just mentioned and just start replacing guys.  Or, you know, think on your own instead of trying out all the players everyone's always used.

That said, I'm going on vacation for a month starting today, so I'll have to look forward to testing it out when I get back.

You guys both hit on part of the problem.  3-4 years ago, the game was thriving and new owners were popping-up almost daily.  Thing is, those new owners all had their own opinions on how to "improve" the SIM, and seble tried to accomodate them all.  Of course, as anyone can see by looking through these threads, owners still all have different ideas on how to "improve" the SIM, so the game really does need to go back to basics, then maybe owners will stay / return, and quit whining about the things they don't like.  For < $10, you get at least 41 days of entertainment.  Pretty good deal.

Posted by detlef on 10/2/2010 12:01:00 PM (view original):
What's everyone's problem?  I don't have a problem putting together a team that seems interesting and realistic to me.  If you're expecting to have enough salary to sign five all-time greats, join a theme league.  I have no issue with an open league reflecting real life team quality (and you can even do a little better).  Everyone complains when it's too easy to make a team that shoots 50% from the field and then complains when it's too hard to make a team that shoots 50% from the field.  What the heck do you guys all want?  Engine changes would be nice, sure, but given that those aren't coming, the salary changes seem fine and interesting in that they'll force people to come up with some creative ideas (honestly I'm glad I'll now have to have some more scrubs on my team - that's where the game gets interesting, when you have to cover up some weaknesses).  

As someone else pointed out, you can come within $700k of building the 2010 Magic who had the second best record in the league and you can actually create the 2010 LA Lakers (who, if memory served, won the championship).  That sounds like you can create a feasible team to me.  You can also almost create the 1991 Bulls, the 1987 Lakers, and probably other championship teams that I don't have the time to test right now.   Get over the fact that your teams won't be posting ridiculous numbers as easily (isn't that what we all wanted?).  If you're having trouble, start with one of these teams I just mentioned and just start replacing guys.  Or, you know, think on your own instead of trying out all the players everyone's always used.

That said, I'm going on vacation for a month starting today, so I'll have to look forward to testing it out when I get back.

this is exactly the problem - the default cap = real teams on a site supposedly dedicated to the question of what if the legends played together
 
it's 'what if Larry and Magic and Mike...' not 'what if JJ Redick, Marcin Gortat and Rashard Lewis....'

After building a team I have to agree with felonius and Ash for the most part, although I do like to use different players.

Seble has adjusted the value of stats so that offense will not dominate as easily as in the past.  ...But doing so raised more salaries than it lowered.   We seem to be about 5mil over what we were before for the same guys and that is too much.

I think about a 10-12% salary reduction of every player would be a good balance.  You could use some big names, but not JUST the big names.   

My very first WIS team had Stockton Malone Moncreif AK...That does make it more fun.

While I want to agree with detlef, now that I've played around with trying to build teams I do believe salaries are too high for purposes of $42 mil open leagues.  While I was among those calling for overall salaries to be raised, I think the level went up way too much, and a 10-15% decrease across the board would be a good idea.

Having said that, I'm still going to take the new deal out for a spin and see what happens.  it'll be interesting to see how soon new patterns of player use start to emerge.

"What's everyone's problem?"

I already stated my problem.  Read before asking dumb questions.

"I don't have a problem putting together a team that seems interesting and realistic to me.  If you're expecting to have enough salary to sign five all-time greats, join a theme league."

I don't want to have to join a theme league (read:  slow filling if ever) to mess with the "What If?" concept.  I think we did right in raising salaries, but the final increase was too much.  Raise efg%.  Raise on rebounds.  Maybe make the small raise on higher usage players (though I think is what's causing most people's problems right now with getting enough offense).

And no offense, but you don't exactly have a lot of experience on this site.  For you to say you're having no problem putting a team together means nothing.  When long-time successful vets are having issues, then I'll tend to believe them more than a noob who talks a big game.

I don't know when it was that I started playing here but it was before the previous change to the sim.  My guess is that might have been four years or more.  I rarely post anything on the forum simply because for the most part the forum has become the place where basically someone is always ******** about something. 

  I can remember when during season play there was quite a bit of trash talking, ragging one another in a good way, along with quite a bit of humor. There are only a handful of people here now that were here when I started.  I can also remember when open leagues filled in a couple of days and theme leagues generally filled in less than a week or two. The number one player on the top 25 listing was at or about 5,000 and now it is over 10,000.

Was the ******** warranted? Of course it was, however it was way over the top when you take into consideration they have never devoted the time or manpower to accomplish what a lot of people, way to many people want.  Someone in a previous post said the one thing that makes sense.  KISS.  This will never be a place where everyone agrees with everything. The world itself is not a place where everyone agrees with everything.

Now I am ********.  I simply refuse to play any kind of basketball game where Govan is the best center in the league and he is surrounded with a cast of players that are unknown basically because they rarely got of the bench.  If it were not for the Michael Jordans, Kobe, Wilt and other star players I doubt that the NBA itself would exist. The single biggest problem I see with this release is the salary structure quite simply sucks the big one. Other than that who knows what else sucks with this release and I will never ever find out if the salary structure is not fixed immediately which probably means I am gone.

My reason for suggesting a vote for the quick fix is it involves many of your peers and takes the decision away from WIS. That way there will be far less ******** because there are far more people involved. In fact probably the people doing the most ******** will be involved. I think at this point it might be doubtful that even a reasonably large group of people will be able to agree on a reasonable salary structure.

A straight 10% cut across the board will go a long way to fixing a lot of issues we've brought up.  Think about it... All of the guys that are in the 10 millions will lose about a million bucks off their salary, while the guys in the 7s will only lose about 700k... 5s will lose 500k... this will go a long way towards building teams with some name recognition yet not being the ridiculousness we had before.

I'm guessing Paul Bessire was the putz fiddling with PE, because it's still ridiculous...they're trying to be too mathematic/scientific about it....just make it a looser construction than a stricter...make everyone 100% at at least 2 positions...that makes the game more appealing to me, without making the game more ridiculous

I agree with Hoosiermania and Ash. This new salary structure is way too much.  It just sucks. Cannot put together any type of decent team with 42 million salary cap.  The original spreadsheet I saw did make some good salary adjustments, but somehow many salaries of stars increased dramatically.  The fun part for me is being able to have a few stars on a 42 million team.  I cannot come close to 20,000 minutes for any team I'm trying to put together.  There were also some unbelievable increases for many players I would routinely use on my bench.  Some bench players had their salaries tripled.  Ash says reduce all salaries by 10% that would be good for players above 5 million, but some bench guys should be cut by 20% or so.  I don't have the knowledge many of you long term guys have, but for me, not sure I will be playing as much unless something is done.  Maybe the new base OL salary should be now be $47M.