Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

tecwrg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/24/2012 8:42:00 AM (view original):
Did you lose again?
No.  I closed the SSM discussion yesterday.
5/24/2012 9:05 AM
swamphawk22
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/23/2012 11:34:00 PM (view original):
Yes and I'm confident prop 8 will remain overturned. There isn't a legal reason to ban same sex marriage.
If prop 8 is overturned by the SC does that change your position?
5/24/2012 10:19 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/24/2012 10:19:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 5/23/2012 11:34:00 PM (view original):
Yes and I'm confident prop 8 will remain overturned. There isn't a legal reason to ban same sex marriage.
If prop 8 is overturned by the SC does that change your position?
Don't you mean upheld?
5/24/2012 10:38 AM
micki
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/23/2012 2:57:00 PM (view original):
You dont think that his policies in Afghanistan could be as big a problem as the fact that unemployment is so high?
No I don't. Unemployment is not Obama's fault (and it was not Bushs fault either). The President of the United States has little, if anything, to do with the economy.

Foriegn policy however is in his baliwick to control. Bushs' fault or not, this is viewed by the swing voters (like me) as Obama's war now. He went and made some huge comittments of our resources to this POS country that most Amercians could care less about.

Mark my words - this will be his un-doing in Novemeber.

Question is - will we learn from another charlie fox trot in fighting a far-away country ? One would hope so, but as Eisenhowser said -

"Beware of the military complex"
5/24/2012 10:45 AM
swamphawk22
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Posted by tecwrg on 5/24/2012 10:38:00 AM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/24/2012 10:19:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 5/23/2012 11:34:00 PM (view original):
Yes and I'm confident prop 8 will remain overturned. There isn't a legal reason to ban same sex marriage.
If prop 8 is overturned by the SC does that change your position?
Don't you mean upheld?
You are correct.

If prop 8 is upheld does that change your postion?
5/24/2012 10:53 AM
jrd_x
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Posted by micki on 5/24/2012 10:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/23/2012 2:57:00 PM (view original):
You dont think that his policies in Afghanistan could be as big a problem as the fact that unemployment is so high?
No I don't. Unemployment is not Obama's fault (and it was not Bushs fault either). The President of the United States has little, if anything, to do with the economy.

Foriegn policy however is in his baliwick to control. Bushs' fault or not, this is viewed by the swing voters (like me) as Obama's war now. He went and made some huge comittments of our resources to this POS country that most Amercians could care less about.

Mark my words - this will be his un-doing in Novemeber.

Question is - will we learn from another charlie fox trot in fighting a far-away country ? One would hope so, but as Eisenhowser said -

"Beware of the military complex"
My question is, do you think Romney would have done anything different in Afghanistan?  I don't think we would be any closer to ending that war with a Republican president.

Regarding the economy, I do blame Obama.  Not because he caused it, but because he didn't push for policies that would actually help the economy recover faster. He got caught up in deficit/debt negotiations when that should have put aside to focus on jobs.
5/24/2012 11:14 AM
jrd_x
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/24/2012 10:53:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 5/24/2012 10:38:00 AM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/24/2012 10:19:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 5/23/2012 11:34:00 PM (view original):
Yes and I'm confident prop 8 will remain overturned. There isn't a legal reason to ban same sex marriage.
If prop 8 is overturned by the SC does that change your position?
Don't you mean upheld?
You are correct.

If prop 8 is upheld does that change your postion?
If prop 8 is upheld I will still believe that same sex couples should have the right to marry.  But the argument that prop 8 violates the 14th amendment will, at least temporarily, no longer work.
5/24/2012 11:15 AM
tecwrg
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Temporarily?  Do you think someone or something will overrule the Supreme Court?
5/24/2012 11:27 AM
jrd_x
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Posted by tecwrg on 5/24/2012 11:27:00 AM (view original):
Temporarily?  Do you think someone or something will overrule the Supreme Court?
No, but new cases are brought before them all the time and new precedent gets set.  In 1986 the supreme court ruled that states could criminalize homosexual behavior.  It took until 2003, but the supreme court reversed that decision.
5/24/2012 11:32 AM
tecwrg
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So sometimes the Supreme Court gets it wrong?
5/24/2012 11:45 AM
jrd_x
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Yes.
5/24/2012 11:47 AM
swamphawk22
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/24/2012 11:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/24/2012 10:53:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 5/24/2012 10:38:00 AM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/24/2012 10:19:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 5/23/2012 11:34:00 PM (view original):
Yes and I'm confident prop 8 will remain overturned. There isn't a legal reason to ban same sex marriage.
If prop 8 is overturned by the SC does that change your position?
Don't you mean upheld?
You are correct.

If prop 8 is upheld does that change your postion?
If prop 8 is upheld I will still believe that same sex couples should have the right to marry.  But the argument that prop 8 violates the 14th amendment will, at least temporarily, no longer work.
So there is no middle ground for you.

How about...Same sex couples should have the right to get married, but that right does not raise to the level of the 14th amendment and individual states can ban it in the meantime?
5/24/2012 11:54 AM
jrd_x
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No, I do believe that prop 8 violates the 14th amendment in the same way that banning interracial marriage violated the 14th amendment.
5/24/2012 11:59 AM
micki
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I am not gay, have never been gay, nor ever considered another man in that fashion.  That being said, if there was no pre-nup, I might consider marrying Bill Gates.

I think I can take a little uncomforatable - ness for lots of money.  Did anybody notice - does Bill Gates have big hands ?
5/24/2012 12:24 PM
swamphawk22
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/24/2012 11:59:00 AM (view original):
No, I do believe that prop 8 violates the 14th amendment in the same way that banning interracial marriage violated the 14th amendment.
I find any Constitutional claim to be questionable for a social issue.

Interracial marriage was overturned because it played into a larger issue of White Supremacy.

In the decision on interracial marriage the institution of marraige was defeined as being central to our survival, That isnt the case in SSMs as it does not lead to procreation

I strongly believe that for the federal government to overturn the will of the people of a state a clear harm must be shown to impact society as a whole. That does not exist here.
5/24/2012 1:37 PM
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