Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

MikeT23
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Posted by tecwrg on 5/22/2012 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/22/2012 2:37:00 PM (view original):
Should I read the last 4 pages or is JRDX still insisting that everyone has the right to get married to whoever they choose?
Don't waste your time.  I'll give you a brief summary.

jrd_x is unable to define exactly what a right is; he is having trouble differentiating between a fundamental right and a legal right, and in turn is unable  to answer whether or not he believes marriage is a fundamental right that all people inherently have or is a legal right that is granted by the government.

Thanks.  Was that just the last 4 pages or the previous 44 pages?

5/22/2012 2:47 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/22/2012 2:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 5/22/2012 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/22/2012 2:37:00 PM (view original):
Should I read the last 4 pages or is JRDX still insisting that everyone has the right to get married to whoever they choose?
Don't waste your time.  I'll give you a brief summary.

jrd_x is unable to define exactly what a right is; he is having trouble differentiating between a fundamental right and a legal right, and in turn is unable  to answer whether or not he believes marriage is a fundamental right that all people inherently have or is a legal right that is granted by the government.

Thanks.  Was that just the last 4 pages or the previous 44 pages?

I was specifically referring to the last 4 pages.  But in general, it covers everything back to page 13.
5/22/2012 2:50 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/22/2012 2:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 5/22/2012 2:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 5/22/2012 2:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 5/22/2012 2:36:00 PM (view original):
It is absolutely relevant to this discussion if the Constitution is intended to guarantee and protect fundamental rights.

Do you agree or disagree that, in addition to other things, the U.S. Constitution is intended to guarantee and protect the fundamental rights of U.S. citizens?
So a fundamental right can be granted by the constitution?
No.  But it can be identified and affirmed by the Constitution as a fundamental right.

Do you agree or disagree with that?
Identified and affirmed???  Your rights are granted legally by the constitution.  You can believe that you have those rights absent the legal protection, but there isn't much you can do about it if someone decides to take them away. 
So for a U.S. citizen to have a fundamental and protected right, it needs to be specifically spelled out in the U.S. Constitution?
5/22/2012 2:55 PM (edited)
jrd_x
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Posted by tecwrg on 5/22/2012 2:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 5/22/2012 2:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 5/22/2012 2:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 5/22/2012 2:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 5/22/2012 2:36:00 PM (view original):
It is absolutely relevant to this discussion if the Constitution is intended to guarantee and protect fundamental rights.

Do you agree or disagree that, in addition to other things, the U.S. Constitution is intended to guarantee and protect the fundamental rights of U.S. citizens?
So a fundamental right can be granted by the constitution?
No.  But it can be identified and affirmed by the Constitution as a fundamental right.

Do you agree or disagree with that?
Identified and affirmed???  Your rights are granted legally by the constitution.  You can believe that you have those rights absent the legal protection, but there isn't much you can do about it if someone decides to take them away. 
So for a U.S. citizen to have a fundamental and protected right, it needs to be specifically spelled out in the U.S. Constitution?
For a US citizen to have any right, that right needs to be specifically spelled out in the constitution or through case law that establishes that whatever right is protected under constitutional language that doesn't specifically name that right.

Example:  The constitution doesn't specifically say you have the right to get married.  But the supreme court has established that marriage is a civil right based on language in the 14th amendment.
5/22/2012 3:00 PM
tecwrg
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So back to the question that you are unwilling to answer.

Is the "civil right" of marriage a fundamental right, or a legal right?
5/22/2012 3:05 PM
jrd_x
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If a fundamental right is only protected if it is granted in the constitution, then there is no difference between a legal and fundamental right.
5/22/2012 3:10 PM
tecwrg
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Is that your belief?
5/22/2012 3:11 PM
jrd_x
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No. I'll go with fundamental right under the 14th amendment.
5/22/2012 3:12 PM
tecwrg
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OK.  So you say that marriage is a fundamental right.

Why do you need a license to exercise a fundamental right?
5/22/2012 3:17 PM (edited)
jrd_x
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I think voting is a fundamental right too.
5/22/2012 3:18 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by tecwrg on 5/22/2012 3:17:00 PM (view original):
OK.  So you say that marriage is a fundamental right.

Why do you need a license to exercise a fundamental right?
The question is about marriage.  Not voting.
5/22/2012 3:20 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/22/2012 3:18:00 PM (view original):
I think voting is a fundamental right too.
Convicted felons are not allowed to vote in many states.  Since fundamental rights cannot be taken away, then voting cannot be a fundamental right.  Therefore, voting is a legal right.
5/22/2012 3:21 PM
jrd_x
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You missed the point. Just because you need a license (or to register) doesn't mean that something isn't a right.
5/22/2012 3:22 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/22/2012 3:22:00 PM (view original):
You missed the point. Just because you need a license (or to register) doesn't mean that something isn't a right.
Can you legally get married without a license?
5/22/2012 3:28 PM
jrd_x
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I don't know. Can you?
5/22/2012 3:29 PM
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