Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

MikeT23
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/14/2012 1:48:00 PM (view original):
Incest is illegal.  Homosexuality isn't.
"And "The law says it's illegal" isn't going to cut it." 
5/14/2012 1:50 PM
jrd_x
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So what?  Incest is illegal, homosexuality isn't.  The two topics aren't related.
5/14/2012 1:50 PM
swamphawk22
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I think Mike is looking for a more fundemental argument about right and wrong.

5/14/2012 1:53 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/11/2012 9:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/11/2012 8:57:00 PM (view original):

Sorry, I'm not up on the sodomy laws.   Let's get back to immorality.  Many people think incest is immoral.  Many people think homosexuality is immoral.  Why is one legal?

Maybe morality isn't the only criteria for legality
You picked the argument..
5/14/2012 1:56 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/14/2012 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I think Mike is looking for a more fundemental argument about right and wrong.

Actually, if you've read the last 15 pages, you'd know what I'm after.

We're told incest is wrong.  Always have been told that.
We were told homosexuality was wrong(some people still say it's wrong).   Times have changed. 

What's the difference?

5/14/2012 1:58 PM
swamphawk22
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Times change.

Human sacrifice used to be ok. Now it isnt.

If the common societal norms change enough laws will follow.
5/14/2012 2:02 PM
jrd_x
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/14/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/14/2012 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I think Mike is looking for a more fundemental argument about right and wrong.

Actually, if you've read the last 15 pages, you'd know what I'm after.

We're told incest is wrong.  Always have been told that.
We were told homosexuality was wrong(some people still say it's wrong).   Times have changed. 

What's the difference?

I'm not concerned with what some people consider right and wrong.  Incest is illegal, homosexuality isn't, therefore the arguments for/against incestual marriage are not the same as the arguments for/against same sex marriage.
5/14/2012 2:04 PM
swamphawk22
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/14/2012 2:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/14/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/14/2012 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I think Mike is looking for a more fundemental argument about right and wrong.

Actually, if you've read the last 15 pages, you'd know what I'm after.

We're told incest is wrong.  Always have been told that.
We were told homosexuality was wrong(some people still say it's wrong).   Times have changed. 

What's the difference?

I'm not concerned with what some people consider right and wrong.  Incest is illegal, homosexuality isn't, therefore the arguments for/against incestual marriage are not the same as the arguments for/against same sex marriage.
Are you bothered by the all one way attitudes of the partys involved?

The left seems to believe that this is the defining moral issue of our time and anyone opposing them is another Hitler.

The right seems to think that this is the defining moral issue of our time and anyone opposing them is another Stalin.

Wouldnt the logical answer to be to leave it to the states and try not to dwell on their solutions too much?
5/14/2012 2:07 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/14/2012 2:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/14/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/14/2012 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I think Mike is looking for a more fundemental argument about right and wrong.

Actually, if you've read the last 15 pages, you'd know what I'm after.

We're told incest is wrong.  Always have been told that.
We were told homosexuality was wrong(some people still say it's wrong).   Times have changed. 

What's the difference?

I'm not concerned with what some people consider right and wrong.  Incest is illegal, homosexuality isn't, therefore the arguments for/against incestual marriage are not the same as the arguments for/against same sex marriage.
And it's illegal because we've been told it's bad for our entire lives.   Much like religious folks are telling their children, right this very ******* minute, that homosexuality is bad.   Accept that as a fact and we can move on.  

Our perception of morality affects our lawmaking process.   Which is why some states have passed laws banning SSM. 

5/14/2012 2:14 PM
jrd_x
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They can tell their children that homosexuality is bad, but homosexuality is legal.

That's the difference.

Incestual marriage is not allowed because incest itself isn't legal.

The analogy doesn't work with same sex marriage because homosexuality is legal.
5/14/2012 2:18 PM
MikeT23
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Did you read my post?   Because you didn't respond to it.
5/14/2012 2:21 PM
jrd_x
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/14/2012 2:19:00 PM (view original):
They can tell their children that homosexuality is bad, but homosexuality is legal.

That's the difference.

Incestual marriage is not allowed because incest itself isn't legal.

The analogy doesn't work with same sex marriage because homosexuality is legal.
Yeah, I did.
5/14/2012 2:24 PM
jrd_x
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/14/2012 2:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 5/14/2012 2:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/14/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/14/2012 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I think Mike is looking for a more fundemental argument about right and wrong.

Actually, if you've read the last 15 pages, you'd know what I'm after.

We're told incest is wrong.  Always have been told that.
We were told homosexuality was wrong(some people still say it's wrong).   Times have changed. 

What's the difference?

I'm not concerned with what some people consider right and wrong.  Incest is illegal, homosexuality isn't, therefore the arguments for/against incestual marriage are not the same as the arguments for/against same sex marriage.
Are you bothered by the all one way attitudes of the partys involved?

The left seems to believe that this is the defining moral issue of our time and anyone opposing them is another Hitler.

The right seems to think that this is the defining moral issue of our time and anyone opposing them is another Stalin.

Wouldnt the logical answer to be to leave it to the states and try not to dwell on their solutions too much?
I think this is an important issue.  And leaving it to the states is problematic.  We left the decision on interracial marriage up to the states and while many repealed (often times court ordered) the bans after WWII, there were several hold outs (especially in the south) and it took a supreme court ruling in 1967 to get the last of the bans overturned.
5/14/2012 2:55 PM
tecwrg
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It's good to know that in the United States of JRDmerica, the states should not be trusted to be responsible enough to make their own laws.
5/14/2012 3:57 PM
swamphawk22
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Posted by jrd_x on 5/14/2012 2:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/14/2012 2:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jrd_x on 5/14/2012 2:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/14/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 5/14/2012 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I think Mike is looking for a more fundemental argument about right and wrong.

Actually, if you've read the last 15 pages, you'd know what I'm after.

We're told incest is wrong.  Always have been told that.
We were told homosexuality was wrong(some people still say it's wrong).   Times have changed. 

What's the difference?

I'm not concerned with what some people consider right and wrong.  Incest is illegal, homosexuality isn't, therefore the arguments for/against incestual marriage are not the same as the arguments for/against same sex marriage.
Are you bothered by the all one way attitudes of the partys involved?

The left seems to believe that this is the defining moral issue of our time and anyone opposing them is another Hitler.

The right seems to think that this is the defining moral issue of our time and anyone opposing them is another Stalin.

Wouldnt the logical answer to be to leave it to the states and try not to dwell on their solutions too much?
I think this is an important issue.  And leaving it to the states is problematic.  We left the decision on interracial marriage up to the states and while many repealed (often times court ordered) the bans after WWII, there were several hold outs (especially in the south) and it took a supreme court ruling in 1967 to get the last of the bans overturned.
This is very different than a racial issue.

Gays are generally accepted into society and in fact are thriving.

This isnt another stick on a huge pile, this is one specific issue.

Either you stand up for the Republic or you move towards a tyranical Central Government.
5/14/2012 4:14 PM
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