Posted by moy23 on 3/2/2016 8:48:00 PM (view original):
Let's flip the question.... Can you tell me why any of these basic principles of negotiating are NOT relevant to political negotiations?

The method of principled negotiation is based on five propositions:^[5]

• "Separate the people from the problem"
• "Focus on interests, not positions"
• "Invent options for mutual gain"
• "Insist on using objective criteria"
• "Know your BATNA (Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement)"

Still waiting to hear how its NOT important for politicians to understand, before starting to negotiate, what the other party will do if an agreement is not reached (BATNA)... Or how its NOT important for politicians to use realistic, objective criteria in a negotiation? Or why a politician would leave any options that were not thought of before starting the negotiation off the table? Or why politicians would feel they need to stand their ground instead of try to uncover what the other party truly is after? Or why politicians think it's best to continue to focus on the people in the negotiation rather than the actual problem at hand? Please tell me because these are basic principals of BUSINESS negotiation that you say do not apply to political negotiation.

Rubio isn't going to be the Repub candidate. We're talking about Trump. Trump has essentially declared verbal war on China and Mexico during his campaign. The leaders of those countries know this. Caving in negotiations is not something they're going to do because they do not want to appear weak. So Trump is starting behind the 8 ball with both. He's a loose cannon. He's fun to watch but he's irrational and he has the potential to make Obama look like a unifier with a great foreign policy.

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/2/2016 9:40:00 PM (view original):
Rubio isn't going to be the Repub candidate. We're talking about Trump. Trump has essentially declared verbal war on China and Mexico during his campaign. The leaders of those countries know this. Caving in negotiations is not something they're going to do because they do not want to appear weak. So Trump is starting behind the 8 ball with both. He's a loose cannon. He's fun to watch but he's irrational and he has the potential to make Obama look like a unifier with a great foreign policy.

You are over thinking it because you hate Trump. Plenty of businessmen don't like each other but they still do business together. Politicians are the same. A quick example - Christie called Trump the Entertainer in Chief just 3 weeks ago, now he's endorsing him. Who knows what the brokered deal was behind the scenes, despite what was said before the negotiation began. There are more than enough examples of this going on in Washington. Ted Cruz and the Republicans just said they will not vote on a Supreme Court Judge until 2017 and Obama hasn't even nominated anyone yet.

Trump put out his Healthcare Policy today.... https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform I love how he is pacing this. Immigration. Taxes. Now Healthcare.

I don't hate Trump. Do you have any indication that he's willing to compromise? I'm sure he's had to but, even from his own mouth, he's accustomed to getting what HE wants.

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/2/2016 9:57:00 PM (view original):
I don't hate Trump. Do you have any indication that he's willing to compromise? I'm sure he's had to but, even from his own mouth, he's accustomed to getting what HE wants.

Trump compromised quite a bit in his bankruptcies. Bankruptcy is a negotiation and I guarantee HE did not want to lose all that he did.

Bankruptcy 1: The Trump Taj Mahal, 1991

The first bankruptcy associated with Trump was perhaps the most significant in terms of his personal finances, according to news reports at the time. He funded the construction of the $1 billion Trump Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, which opened in 1990. By 1991, the casino was nearly $3 billion in debt, while Trump had racked up nearly $900 million in personal liabilities, so the business decided to file for Chapter 11 reorganization, according to the New York Times. As a result, Trump gave up half his personal stake in the casino and sold his yacht and airline, according to the Washington Post.

Bankruptcy 2: Trump Plaza Hotel, 1992

Trump acquired the Plaza Hotel in New York for $390 million in 1988. By 1992, the hotel had accumulated $550 million in debt. As a result of the bankruptcy, in exchange for easier terms on which to pay off the debts, Trump relinquished a 49 percent stake in the Plaza to a total of six lenders, according to ABC News. Trump remained the hotel’s CEO, but it was merely a gesture -- he didn’t earn a salary and had no say in the hotel’s day-to-day operations, according to the New York Times.

Bankruptcy 3: Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts, 2004

Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts filed for bankruptcy again in 2004 when his casinos -- including the Trump Taj Mahal, Trump Marina and Trump Plaza casinos in Atlantic City and a riverboat casino in Indiana -- had accrued an estimated $1.8 billion in debt, according to the Associated Press. Trump agreed to reduce his share in the company from 47 to 27 percent in a restructuring plan, but he was still the company’s largest single shareholder and remained in charge of its operations. Trump told the Associated Press at the time that the company represented less than 1 percent of his net worth.

Bankruptcy 4: Trump Entertainment Resorts, 2009

Trump Entertainment Resorts -- formerly Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts -- was hit hard by the 2008 economic recession and missed a $53.1 million bond interest payment in December 2008, according to ABC News. After debating with the company’s board of directors, Trump resigned as the company’s chairman and had his corporate stake in the company reduced to 10 percent. The company continued to use Trump’s name in licensing.

DOJ grants immunity to ex-Clinton staffer who set up email server

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/02/politics/hillary-clinton-email-server-justice-department/index.html

Posted by moy23 on 3/2/2016 10:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/2/2016 9:57:00 PM (view original):
I don't hate Trump. Do you have any indication that he's willing to compromise? I'm sure he's had to but, even from his own mouth, he's accustomed to getting what HE wants.

Trump compromised quite a bit in his bankruptcies. Bankruptcy is a negotiation and I guarantee HE did not want to lose all that he did.

Bankruptcy 1: The Trump Taj Mahal, 1991

The first bankruptcy associated with Trump was perhaps the most significant in terms of his personal finances, according to news reports at the time. He funded the construction of the $1 billion Trump Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, which opened in 1990. By 1991, the casino was nearly $3 billion in debt, while Trump had racked up nearly $900 million in personal liabilities, so the business decided to file for Chapter 11 reorganization, according to the New York Times. As a result, Trump gave up half his personal stake in the casino and sold his yacht and airline, according to the Washington Post.

Bankruptcy 2: Trump Plaza Hotel, 1992

Trump acquired the Plaza Hotel in New York for $390 million in 1988. By 1992, the hotel had accumulated $550 million in debt. As a result of the bankruptcy, in exchange for easier terms on which to pay off the debts, Trump relinquished a 49 percent stake in the Plaza to a total of six lenders, according to ABC News. Trump remained the hotel’s CEO, but it was merely a gesture -- he didn’t earn a salary and had no say in the hotel’s day-to-day operations, according to the New York Times.

Bankruptcy 3: Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts, 2004

Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts filed for bankruptcy again in 2004 when his casinos -- including the Trump Taj Mahal, Trump Marina and Trump Plaza casinos in Atlantic City and a riverboat casino in Indiana -- had accrued an estimated $1.8 billion in debt, according to the Associated Press. Trump agreed to reduce his share in the company from 47 to 27 percent in a restructuring plan, but he was still the company’s largest single shareholder and remained in charge of its operations. Trump told the Associated Press at the time that the company represented less than 1 percent of his net worth.

Bankruptcy 4: Trump Entertainment Resorts, 2009

Trump Entertainment Resorts -- formerly Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts -- was hit hard by the 2008 economic recession and missed a $53.1 million bond interest payment in December 2008, according to ABC News. After debating with the company’s board of directors, Trump resigned as the company’s chairman and had his corporate stake in the company reduced to 10 percent. The company continued to use Trump’s name in licensing.

So, if Trump has his back against the wall, he'll negotiate a settlement so he can keep some of his stuff?

WOW!!! That's some mad negotiation skillz!!!!! SIGN ME UP AS A TRUMP SUPPORTER!!!!

BTW, I bet he'll be fantastic at balancing a budget!!!!!

You asked for examples - I gave them to you. I don't know any negotiator that is NOT willing to compromise and can still effectively negotiate. Cruz and Obama are great examples of that... they refuse to compromise and the result is no deals get done. Seriously - you can't honestly tell me with all the deals Trump has made in his lifetime he does not compromise.

Your examples were when he was ******. That's the guy who gets caught ******* the maid then settles with his wife only giving her 47%. He "wins" because it wasn't half. But he lost 47% of his ****.

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/2/2016 10:23:00 PM (view original):
Your examples were when he was ******. That's the guy who gets caught ******* the maid then settles with his wife only giving her 47%. He "wins" because it wasn't half. But he lost 47% of his ****.

How would I know what happened at the negotiating table for Trump business deals. Bottom line is no one can go into a negotiation without compromise and make a deal happen. Thats not a negotiation - Thats what Obama and Cruz do. Trump closes many many deals.... Yuuuuuge deals...... which must mean he compromises.

Posted by moy23 on 3/2/2016 9:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 3/2/2016 8:48:00 PM (view original):
Let's flip the question.... Can you tell me why any of these basic principles of negotiating are NOT relevant to political negotiations?

The method of principled negotiation is based on five propositions:^[5]

• "Separate the people from the problem"
• "Focus on interests, not positions"
• "Invent options for mutual gain"
• "Insist on using objective criteria"
• "Know your BATNA (Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement)"

Still waiting to hear how its NOT important for politicians to understand, before starting to negotiate, what the other party will do if an agreement is not reached (BATNA)... Or how its NOT important for politicians to use realistic, objective criteria in a negotiation? Or why a politician would leave any options that were not thought of before starting the negotiation off the table? Or why politicians would feel they need to stand their ground instead of try to uncover what the other party truly is after? Or why politicians think it's best to continue to focus on the people in the negotiation rather than the actual problem at hand? Please tell me because these are basic principals of BUSINESS negotiation that you say do not apply to political negotiation.

...... crickets

Posted by moy23 on 3/2/2016 10:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/2/2016 10:23:00 PM (view original):
Your examples were when he was ******. That's the guy who gets caught ******* the maid then settles with his wife only giving her 47%. He "wins" because it wasn't half. But he lost 47% of his ****.

How would I know what happened at the negotiating table for Trump business deals. Bottom line is no one can go into a negotiation without compromise and make a deal happen. Thats not a negotiation - Thats what Obama and Cruz do. Trump closes many many deals.... Yuuuuuge deals...... which must mean he compromises.

Or he gets up, walks out and makes a more favorable deal with another person. What do you have that would indicate he's capable of compromise? His bankruptcy settlements? His divorce settlements? Those were back against the wall deals.

Again, in business, you have other options. Sitting at a table with China, you must deal with China.

Business is not politics, politics is not business.

And, no, moyluck, I'm not playing your diversion game. We'll stay on topic here.

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/2/2016 10:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 3/2/2016 10:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/2/2016 10:23:00 PM (view original):
Your examples were when he was ******. That's the guy who gets caught ******* the maid then settles with his wife only giving her 47%. He "wins" because it wasn't half. But he lost 47% of his ****.

How would I know what happened at the negotiating table for Trump business deals. Bottom line is no one can go into a negotiation without compromise and make a deal happen. Thats not a negotiation - Thats what Obama and Cruz do. Trump closes many many deals.... Yuuuuuge deals...... which must mean he compromises.

Or he gets up, walks out and makes a more favorable deal with another person. What do you have that would indicate he's capable of compromise? His bankruptcy settlements? His divorce settlements? Those were back against the wall deals.

Again, in business, you have other options. Sitting at a table with China, you must deal with China.

Business is not politics, politics is not business.

And, no, moyluck, I'm not playing your diversion game. We'll stay on topic here.

What would you consider a back against the wall international negotiation? Because you just ticked off 4 bankruptcies and 2 divorces where donald had his back to the wall and you see the results of his compromise.