Posted by tecwrg on 2/6/2015 8:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2015 8:50:00 AM (view original):
Yeah you missed mikes point. Taxes are necessary for society to function. Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.

Taxes are necessary for society to function.  Correct.

Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.  Incorrect.

You already admitted that it was an indirect government subsidy. Why are you arguing?

Posted by tecwrg on 2/5/2015 3:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2015 3:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by silentpadna on 2/5/2015 3:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/20/2015 10:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 1/20/2015 10:24:00 PM (view original):
It's a mixed message he's sending with respect to education.

1)  Everybody should be given the opportunity to go to community college for free

vs

2)  Oh, you've been funding 529's to pay for your kid's college education?  Gee, that's too bad.

It's not like you lose the 529. You just have to pay income taxes on the gains.

Again, it's a subsidy used almost entirely by upper middle class households with kids. People who have the means to pay for or otherwise finance the cost of college. Ending that subsidy in order to subsidize the college education of the poor makes sense.

I'm jumping into this a little late.  But with a purpose. 

Not taxing something does not mean the same thing as "a subsidy".  A 529 plan gives incentive for people to save for college.  How is that a bad thing?  When the government does not tax something it's not the same as "giving them something".  That implies that the money belongs to the government in the first place, when it clearly does not.

"If you make less than $250,000 per year, your taxes will not increase by a single dime...."

Uh huh.

It is a subsidy. Most of the time, investment gains earned over time are taxed as income. To allow someone to keep gains untaxed is giving them something.

It's semantics.

It's retarded to consider tax breaks as subsidies, but it does appear to be one of the common examples of an indirect government subsidy.

See? Indirect government subsidy.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2015 9:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/6/2015 8:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2015 8:50:00 AM (view original):
Yeah you missed mikes point. Taxes are necessary for society to function. Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.

Taxes are necessary for society to function.  Correct.

Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.  Incorrect.

You already admitted that it was an indirect government subsidy. Why are you arguing?

I admitted that some definitions define tax breaks as indirect subsidies.  I'm saying that's a retarded way to define tax breaks.

You normally would owe the tax on investment income, right? But, because the government wants people to go to college, it allows you to keep the money tax free in order to subsidize the cost of tuition.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2015 8:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 2/6/2015 12:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2015 12:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 2/5/2015 1:36:00 AM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 2/5/2015 12:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 2/4/2015 10:21:00 PM (view original):
a jordanian pilot gets burned to death alive and the jordanian king angrily vows to pursue ISIS until his military runs 'out of fuel and bullets' then backs that up by hanging two terrorists - but an american gets beheaded by 'the JV team' and our president goes golfing. he is such a horrible president.

If they had just beheaded him, the rhetoric from Jordan would most likely have not been so fierce. What do you expect us to do in Syria or to Isis? Just make glass?

I expect if you draw a red line in the sand you hold up your end of the threat. I expect you listen to your military advisers when they say do not withdraw from Iraq until their army is ready for us to do so. I expect you take this Islamic uprising seriously and not treat them like the JV team. I expect you retaliate when a US ambassador is killed in Benghazi. Ukraine? Great - now we need to supply them with weapons.... why the F have we not been doing that already? Hell, line up our army on their border and see if Putin advances further. The answer is no. Instead this clown in office is all talk, or golf. Spy on Germany and Spain - BUSTED! Iranian Nukes... no big deal. **** off Netanyahu - yep - did that - last I heard dems will boycott listening to our ally's congressional visit. Working with the Yemen gov't - right up until they resigned to terrorist threats last week. UAE - our ally in these Iraq bombings - until December 2014 when they withdrew from the attacks and our white house acted as if they hadn't - which just came out today. And I thought Bush walked us into a quagmire... its nothing compared to Obama.

Why do we care if Russia invades Ukraine? We are not the world police.

Revisiting this but its an interesting response. I hear it often from libs and it's aggravating. I guess it goes against so much of what I've stood for in my life. I still remember sticking up for a kid I didn't know on the school bus that was getting bullied by a bunch of older kids my age - yeah he was drawing some star wars stuff on the foggy bus windows but even at that age I knew this kid didn't deserve the abuse. I remember getting in a fight at the bar to help a young woman when the drunk guy that was hitting on her violently swiped their drinks off the table and on the ground after the woman told him to stop insulting her and leave. I don't care what the woman 'actually' said I knew the guy had to go. I helped raise over $300,000 for United Way this year and I'm proud of that. My job has allowed me to help countless people out of financial despair the last 10-15 years. I just wrapped up my taxes tonight and donated over $3000 this year to people I don't even know. Look - I'm not the world police either and I didn't have to do any of these things... but I did. It's the right thing to do. You are a liberal. I'd expect you to care about those in need. You have no problem demanding the wealthy help the poor but when it comes to helping those in need outside the USA you have boundaries? What makes a Ukrainian (which I know many people with family out there) any less of a person than an American? Can you answer that?

I know we've been down this road before but I'll say it again. We don't have the resources to fight a war every time a country commits an atrocity. Africa alone would take up all of our time.

I did enjoy the essay on how good of a person moy is.

It's interesting how moy is in favor of having his tax money be paid to help Ukrainians, but when he's asked to have his tax money be used to help Americans, his response is essentially "they should work hard and figure it out themselves."

For what it's worth, I'm perfectly fine with a large military and "policing the world." For this particular situation, I'm not sure it makes sense to get involved.

If it took the money from someone else and "gave" it to you, it's a subsidy to you.

If doesn't take it from you in the first place, it's yours.  It's not a subsidy.

 

I don't care what they do normally.  There was a time when investment income was not taxed at all.  That was never a subsidy to investors then.  None of my income is a subsidy from the government.  The government chooses to allow me to not count mortgage interest paid as income for tax purposes.  That's not a subsidy, it's simply a choice of what they'll tax.  Our representatives believed that encouraging home ownership is good for society - and that the benefit derived from that ownership pays off in other areas.  Not to the gov't treasury, but to society.

For it to be given, it has to be owned in the first place.  Government doesn't own anything it doesn't take from someone.

Posted by tecwrg on 2/6/2015 8:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2015 8:50:00 AM (view original):
Yeah you missed mikes point. Taxes are necessary for society to function. Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.

Taxes are necessary for society to function.  Correct.

Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.  Incorrect.

FWIW, I agree with this.   I don't think taxes are a "burden".    Taxes are supposed to be "pooled" to "buy" me services that I'd be unable to purchase on my own.  That's not a burden.

Tax breaks aren't a subsidy.    I can't think of a definition that makes them a subsidy.   Maybe BL has one he'd like to share. 

Posted by burnsy483 on 2/6/2015 9:36:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2015 8:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 2/6/2015 12:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/5/2015 12:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 2/5/2015 1:36:00 AM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 2/5/2015 12:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 2/4/2015 10:21:00 PM (view original):
a jordanian pilot gets burned to death alive and the jordanian king angrily vows to pursue ISIS until his military runs 'out of fuel and bullets' then backs that up by hanging two terrorists - but an american gets beheaded by 'the JV team' and our president goes golfing. he is such a horrible president.

If they had just beheaded him, the rhetoric from Jordan would most likely have not been so fierce. What do you expect us to do in Syria or to Isis? Just make glass?

I expect if you draw a red line in the sand you hold up your end of the threat. I expect you listen to your military advisers when they say do not withdraw from Iraq until their army is ready for us to do so. I expect you take this Islamic uprising seriously and not treat them like the JV team. I expect you retaliate when a US ambassador is killed in Benghazi. Ukraine? Great - now we need to supply them with weapons.... why the F have we not been doing that already? Hell, line up our army on their border and see if Putin advances further. The answer is no. Instead this clown in office is all talk, or golf. Spy on Germany and Spain - BUSTED! Iranian Nukes... no big deal. **** off Netanyahu - yep - did that - last I heard dems will boycott listening to our ally's congressional visit. Working with the Yemen gov't - right up until they resigned to terrorist threats last week. UAE - our ally in these Iraq bombings - until December 2014 when they withdrew from the attacks and our white house acted as if they hadn't - which just came out today. And I thought Bush walked us into a quagmire... its nothing compared to Obama.

Why do we care if Russia invades Ukraine? We are not the world police.

Revisiting this but its an interesting response. I hear it often from libs and it's aggravating. I guess it goes against so much of what I've stood for in my life. I still remember sticking up for a kid I didn't know on the school bus that was getting bullied by a bunch of older kids my age - yeah he was drawing some star wars stuff on the foggy bus windows but even at that age I knew this kid didn't deserve the abuse. I remember getting in a fight at the bar to help a young woman when the drunk guy that was hitting on her violently swiped their drinks off the table and on the ground after the woman told him to stop insulting her and leave. I don't care what the woman 'actually' said I knew the guy had to go. I helped raise over $300,000 for United Way this year and I'm proud of that. My job has allowed me to help countless people out of financial despair the last 10-15 years. I just wrapped up my taxes tonight and donated over $3000 this year to people I don't even know. Look - I'm not the world police either and I didn't have to do any of these things... but I did. It's the right thing to do. You are a liberal. I'd expect you to care about those in need. You have no problem demanding the wealthy help the poor but when it comes to helping those in need outside the USA you have boundaries? What makes a Ukrainian (which I know many people with family out there) any less of a person than an American? Can you answer that?

I know we've been down this road before but I'll say it again. We don't have the resources to fight a war every time a country commits an atrocity. Africa alone would take up all of our time.

I did enjoy the essay on how good of a person moy is.

It's interesting how moy is in favor of having his tax money be paid to help Ukrainians, but when he's asked to have his tax money be used to help Americans, his response is essentially "they should work hard and figure it out themselves."

For what it's worth, I'm perfectly fine with a large military and "policing the world." For this particular situation, I'm not sure it makes sense to get involved.

moy kills me sometimes.

We pick what we police.  Mostly out of self-interest.   Anyone who disagrees isn't paying attention.

And I donate to animal shelters.  When asked what I want for Christmas or my birthday, I tell them to donate to their locate animal shelter.   I also stopped a man from beating his woman.   She punched me in the ear while I was restraining him.   Thanks, lady.  

I'm a good person too.

Posted by silentpadna on 2/6/2015 9:40:00 AM (view original):
If it took the money from someone else and "gave" it to you, it's a subsidy to you.

If doesn't take it from you in the first place, it's yours.  It's not a subsidy.

 

I don't care what they do normally.  There was a time when investment income was not taxed at all.  That was never a subsidy to investors then.  None of my income is a subsidy from the government.  The government chooses to allow me to not count mortgage interest paid as income for tax purposes.  That's not a subsidy, it's simply a choice of what they'll tax.  Our representatives believed that encouraging home ownership is good for society - and that the benefit derived from that ownership pays off in other areas.  Not to the gov't treasury, but to society.

For it to be given, it has to be owned in the first place.  Government doesn't own anything it doesn't take from someone.

Mortgage interest deduction is a housing subsidy. The government gives you a tax break to subsidize the cost of housing.

Posted by stinenavy on 2/6/2015 5:45:00 AM (view original):
A Ukrainian isn't any less of person than an American, but as an American I'm not going to advocate putting American lives in danger to help out the Ukrainian, especially since it seems most foreign policy decisions the previous 60 years has ended in disaster.

Military is a volunteer force.   When you sign on the dotted line, you don't get to make the decision of where/when you put your life in danger.   I can't say I know a miitary man who complained when he was deployed.   If they did, they probably should have thought it out before signing up. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/6/2015 9:42:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/6/2015 8:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2015 8:50:00 AM (view original):
Yeah you missed mikes point. Taxes are necessary for society to function. Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.

Taxes are necessary for society to function.  Correct.

Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.  Incorrect.

FWIW, I agree with this.   I don't think taxes are a "burden".    Taxes are supposed to be "pooled" to "buy" me services that I'd be unable to purchase on my own.  That's not a burden.

Tax breaks aren't a subsidy.    I can't think of a definition that makes them a subsidy.   Maybe BL has one he'd like to share. 

BL's just playing word games.  If he calls tax breaks a "subsidy", then it's easier for him and the tax-happy "**** the rich" (and in the case of 529's, "**** the upper middle class, too") liberals to take them away.

Not all tax breaks are subsidies. This, though, is a clear example of an indirect government subsidy.

The government is subsidizing the cost of tuition in order to encourage people to go to college.

Do they have different definitions for any other worlds on your home planet?

Posted by tecwrg on 2/6/2015 10:09:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/6/2015 9:42:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 2/6/2015 8:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2015 8:50:00 AM (view original):
Yeah you missed mikes point. Taxes are necessary for society to function. Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.

Taxes are necessary for society to function.  Correct.

Being allowed to avoid paying taxe on certain income for a certain reason is a subsidy.  Incorrect.

FWIW, I agree with this.   I don't think taxes are a "burden".    Taxes are supposed to be "pooled" to "buy" me services that I'd be unable to purchase on my own.  That's not a burden.

Tax breaks aren't a subsidy.    I can't think of a definition that makes them a subsidy.   Maybe BL has one he'd like to share. 

BL's just playing word games.  If he calls tax breaks a "subsidy", then it's easier for him and the tax-happy "**** the rich" (and in the case of 529's, "**** the upper middle class, too") liberals to take them away.

To be clear, I don't care about your ability to send your kids to college.   Not my problem.

However, for it to be a subsidy, wouldn't you pay the tuition and file a claim/report/something to show that you need help with college tuition?   And THEN the government would send you check?   Or send the institution a check?   Isn't that how Obamacare works?  Farming subsidies?    With 529's(admittedly I know nothing about them and don't care to look it up) aren't you depositing money and getting tax free interest?  Doesn't sound the same.