Posted by bronxcheer on 12/5/2014 9:45:00 AM (view original):
ANYBODY WANT SOME LOOSIES?

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2014 9:47:00 AM (view original):
And I don't agree with the idea that he needed to be put in a choke hold 2 seconds after he resisted arrest.  There are 4 cops there to arrest him, and restraining him in a way that the NYPD does not condone was excessive and unnecessary. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/5/2014 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2014 9:47:00 AM (view original):
And I don't agree with the idea that he needed to be put in a choke hold 2 seconds after he resisted arrest.  There are 4 cops there to arrest him, and restraining him in a way that the NYPD does not condone was excessive and unnecessary. 

And, again, you've never arrested anyone.   You didn't answer my question about ever being in a fight. 

I don't think you understand how physical confrontations have to be handled.

Nonetheless, you said the NYPD "disallowed" chokeholds as legit way to restrain suspects.   Therefore, the cop violated policy.   Not criminal.   Suspend him.  Fire him.   Don't send him to trial to pacify the public.  

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2014 9:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2014 9:32:00 AM (view original):
The ME said something criminal happened, moy thinks there wasn't, therefore he thinks the ME was wrong.  This is where the argument is now, a medical examiner was incorrect.

Also, Mike posted an article that states that it's incredibly common that prosecutors go easy on cops because they work with them, and they see it as a conflict of interest. So yes, there's an obvious possibility that while there was evidence that suggested there absolutely should be a trial, the DA didn't choose to pursue it for that reason.

While it contridicts the ME there has to be some faith that more than 2/3rds of a 23 person grand jury that sat for 9 weeks and reviewed the following made the right decision.


— They heard from 50 witnesses — 22 civilians and the rest were police officers, emergency medical personnel and doctors.

— Sixty exhibits were admitted into evidence, including four videos and records about the policies and procedures of the New York Police Department.

— They saw medical records, photographs and autopsy records.

— They saw records on NYPD training.

— Finally, they were briefed on law that governs a police officer's use of physical force when making an arrest.

The killing of one human being by another human being.

Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree.

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2014 9:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/5/2014 9:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 12/5/2014 9:47:00 AM (view original):
And I don't agree with the idea that he needed to be put in a choke hold 2 seconds after he resisted arrest.  There are 4 cops there to arrest him, and restraining him in a way that the NYPD does not condone was excessive and unnecessary. 

And, again, you've never arrested anyone.   You didn't answer my question about ever being in a fight. 

I don't think you understand how physical confrontations have to be handled.

Nonetheless, you said the NYPD "disallowed" chokeholds as legit way to restrain suspects.   Therefore, the cop violated policy.   Not criminal.   Suspend him.  Fire him.   Don't send him to trial to pacify the public.  

I've been in legitimate fight, yes, and I don't know how it's relevant. 

The NYPD has determined how physical confrontations should be handled, and this wasn't the right way. Someone died because of actions taken 2 seconds after the suspect resisted arrest by raising his hands in the air. It should go without saying that it wasn't the right way.

Again, I understand you disagree with the coroner's findings that it was a criminal act.

It's relevant because you said "I'd let up a touch".    When the outcome of the physical confrontation is still in question, that's just dumb.

He used a maneuver that the NYPD disallowed.    That's not criminal.    It's a violation of policy. 

Nonetheless, a very large man made it apparent that being arrested was not part of his daily itinerary.   At that point, he had to be restrained in some manner. 

Posted by tecwrg on 12/5/2014 10:06:00 AM (view original):
Homicide

The killing of one human being by another human being.

Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree.