Posted by moy23 on 11/25/2014 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 12:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/25/2014 11:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Actually, you're right.   Perhaps he would have become a contributor to society.   But, odds are, if you're attacking cops when you're 18, you won't.   If someone feels they can attack people who have the authority to shoot them, what chance does Joe Average have against them?

And yes, people across the country are saying "No wonder the cops act like they do in that part of town.   They're ******* animals."

But there was still no "message". 

The kid was going to community college next year.... I do feel for his parents. It seems they did try to be a positive influence. My guess is the 'f the police young black community' influence in Ferguson got the better of Brown. Its outright stupid to attack police officers - hopefully that is the message here.

He was caught on camera stealing moments earlier.   "FTP" wasn't a part of that. 

He didn't get shot for stealing. He got shot for assaulting an officer.

Lots of people steal. I'm not suggesting stealing has anything to do with FTP.... I do think disrespecting and officer for doing his job does and that's where Mike Brown screwed up. You've voiced the point in the past... Don't argue with cops.

Yea, the stealing is basically irrelevant, except that it got the police officer to that spot in the first place. He was shot because he attacked a police officer. And if his testimony is true, he deserved to get shot.

Posted by moy23 on 11/25/2014 12:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 12:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/25/2014 11:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Actually, you're right.   Perhaps he would have become a contributor to society.   But, odds are, if you're attacking cops when you're 18, you won't.   If someone feels they can attack people who have the authority to shoot them, what chance does Joe Average have against them?

And yes, people across the country are saying "No wonder the cops act like they do in that part of town.   They're ******* animals."

But there was still no "message". 

The kid was going to community college next year.... I do feel for his parents. It seems they did try to be a positive influence. My guess is the 'f the police young black community' influence in Ferguson got the better of Brown. Its outright stupid to attack police officers - hopefully that is the message here.

He was caught on camera stealing moments earlier.   "FTP" wasn't a part of that. 

He didn't get shot for stealing. He got shot for assaulting an officer.

Lots of people steal. I'm not suggesting stealing has anything to do with FTP.... I do think disrespecting and officer for doing his job does and that's where Mike Brown screwed up. You've voiced the point in the past... Don't argue with cops.

Just pointing out that he was a criminal.  Community College or not, young black community influence or not, he was a criminal.    He just took it to another level and paid for it with his life. 

I think the biggest reason for a prime time announcement versus an early morning announcement was twofold:

1)  Almost zero doubt that there was going to be rioting/looting/whatever

2)  A prime time announcement, given the intense interest in this particular case, gives the prosecutor/Ferguson gov't a chance to state the case very clearly.

As a side note, it was obvious to me that the only the reason this even went to a grand jury in the first place is because of political pressure.  The prosecutor did not lobby for charges because he didn't see that he had a case to prosecute.  Given the physical evidence and the piecing together of the witness testimony and the reliability check thereof, it seemed reasonable to me.  It obviously seemed that way to the grand jury as well.

I think in a pragmatic sense, a prime time announcement allowed more people with an outside interest to see inside the case.  They knew the town was going to be in trouble afterward.

As to why the National Guard didn't come in until 2 am, that seems strange, unless there are specific protocols governing a "pre-emergency" mobilization....

Posted by burnsy483 on 11/25/2014 12:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 12:24:00 PM (view original):
And, as I've said a million times, when you give people an excuse, they will use it.

"But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life" is a fine example.   Go ahead and loot/riot.   You've been beaten down by law enforcement all your life, it's understandable. 

For ****'s sake.

If you're going to quote me, at least quote my whole point.  Or at least the whole sentence.

"What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?" 

There are a shitton of people who jump to conclusions about so many things, it doesn't just pertain to blacks. But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life, I at least understand the jump to conclusion here. Again, that doesn't mean you can destroy property.

HA!!!   I didn't even get to "that doesn't mean you can destroy property" before I thought "******* making excuse for rioting".

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 12:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 11/25/2014 12:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 12:24:00 PM (view original):
And, as I've said a million times, when you give people an excuse, they will use it.

"But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life" is a fine example.   Go ahead and loot/riot.   You've been beaten down by law enforcement all your life, it's understandable. 

For ****'s sake.

If you're going to quote me, at least quote my whole point.  Or at least the whole sentence.

"What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?" 

There are a shitton of people who jump to conclusions about so many things, it doesn't just pertain to blacks. But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life, I at least understand the jump to conclusion here. Again, that doesn't mean you can destroy property.

HA!!!   I didn't even get to "that doesn't mean you can destroy property" before I thought "******* making excuse for rioting".

Yea, there's never an excuse for rioting. It never makes sense.

Posted by moy23 on 11/25/2014 12:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 11/25/2014 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 12:24:00 PM (view original):
And, as I've said a million times, when you give people an excuse, they will use it.

"But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life" is a fine example.   Go ahead and loot/riot.   You've been beaten down by law enforcement all your life, it's understandable. 

For ****'s sake.

That's the media narrative.

It gives them a chance for "LIVE: UPDATE FROM FERGUSON!!!!"  news bulletins.

I wonder how the Irish, Italian, and Jewish immigrants that were once so disliked and mistreated in america that they had to form our first gangs can now flourish peacefully? Or how Jews and minorities from the 1940s that were slaughtered for no good reason have rebounded so quickly in Europe? Or why we never see Asians or other minority groups that do well in this country rising up and crying 'inequality'? I wonder what their leaders preach to them?

I think a lot can be learned on how to get out of poverty from these groups... No.... I KNOW a lot can be learned.

Are you suggesting that African-Americans were viewed the same way as Irish and Italians Americans in the 1800s and early 1900s? Seriously?

You're suggesting what can be learned is "work hard." And seem to think that that's all it takes. 

Posted by bad_luck on 11/25/2014 12:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 11/25/2014 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/25/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):
"and all it's doing is making the blacks in those communities look bad, and reinforcing the ideas racists minds already have."

Are you implying that the only racists here are the ones who are commenting about how the blacks in Ferguson are acting, both immediately after this incident happened in August, and again after last night's announcement?

What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?  The people who already were convicting of Darren Wilson of murder before the body was cold.

I'll go back to my comments from earlier this morning.  The mentality of the black community in Ferguson, and by a number of members of PC America, is no different than the lynch mob mentality of the 1930's.  Only the colors of those on both sides have reversed.  We haven't come very far.

That should be troubling to us all.  America needs to stop pretending that racism can only be narrowly defined, and acknowledge that it's a two-way street.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

I think the person who said that would have something to say about what's going on today.

So you're saying all racism is wrong? I don't disagree.


"The mentality of the black community in Ferguson, and by a number of members of PC America, is no different than the lynch mob mentality of the 1930's."

There's one huge difference - the reason why so many blacks in that area were quick to judge, quick to anger, quick to riot, appears to be because of the way they've been treated by law enforcement in the past.  They've been discriminated against, they've felt that they lived their lives at a huge disadvantage, where the people who are supposed to be protecting them seem to be out to get them.  I'm not going to pretend to know what that feels like, to live that way.  What was the reasoning for the "lynch mob mentality of the 1930s?"

I think the majority of Americans feel the the violent riots are a bad thing. It's not the way to go about getting change.


"What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?" 

There are a shitton of people who jump to conclusions about so many things, it doesn't just pertain to blacks. But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life, I at least understand the jump to conclusion here. Again, that doesn't mean you can destroy property.

This.

It's not reverse racism. It certainly isn't anything close to a reverse of the 1930's (let me know when white people start hanging from trees for having the nerve to talk to a black person or use the wrong restroom). It's "holy ****, it's almost 2015 and blacks are still facing systematic racism, time to break some ****."

It's certainly not the best way to get anything done but these riots are less about change and more about frustration.

*******.  OF COURSE IT'S REVERSE RACISM.  Which is still racism.

Denial that it couldn't possibly be that it why it's still so pervasive in American society.

Sorry to ruin your day BL, but if this is truly your belief, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

As long as skin color is used as a definition instead of an adjective, nothing is going to change.

Posted by moy23 on 11/25/2014 12:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 11/25/2014 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 12:24:00 PM (view original):
And, as I've said a million times, when you give people an excuse, they will use it.

"But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life" is a fine example.   Go ahead and loot/riot.   You've been beaten down by law enforcement all your life, it's understandable. 

For ****'s sake.

That's the media narrative.

It gives them a chance for "LIVE: UPDATE FROM FERGUSON!!!!"  news bulletins.

I wonder how the Irish, Italian, and Jewish immigrants that were once so disliked and mistreated in america that they had to form our first gangs can now flourish peacefully? Or how Jews and minorities from the 1940s that were slaughtered for no good reason have rebounded so quickly in Europe? Or why we never see Asians or other minority groups that do well in this country rising up and crying 'inequality'? I wonder what their leaders preach to them?

I think a lot can be learned on how to get out of poverty from these groups... No.... I KNOW a lot can be learned.

I don't think the situations faced by Irish/Italian/Jewish immigrants compared at all to what blacks faced/still face. And, in general, America is still segregated and that is a big problem.

From Ruth Bader Ginsburg:

"Once [gay] people began to say who they were, you found that it was your next-door neighbor or it could be your child, and we found people we admired. That understanding still doesn’t exist with race; you still have separation of neighborhoods, where the races are not mixed. It’s the familiarity with people who are gay that still doesn’t exist for race and will remain that way for a long time as long as where we live remains divided"

Posted by tecwrg on 11/25/2014 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/25/2014 12:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 11/25/2014 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/25/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):
"and all it's doing is making the blacks in those communities look bad, and reinforcing the ideas racists minds already have."

Are you implying that the only racists here are the ones who are commenting about how the blacks in Ferguson are acting, both immediately after this incident happened in August, and again after last night's announcement?

What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?  The people who already were convicting of Darren Wilson of murder before the body was cold.

I'll go back to my comments from earlier this morning.  The mentality of the black community in Ferguson, and by a number of members of PC America, is no different than the lynch mob mentality of the 1930's.  Only the colors of those on both sides have reversed.  We haven't come very far.

That should be troubling to us all.  America needs to stop pretending that racism can only be narrowly defined, and acknowledge that it's a two-way street.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

I think the person who said that would have something to say about what's going on today.

So you're saying all racism is wrong? I don't disagree.


"The mentality of the black community in Ferguson, and by a number of members of PC America, is no different than the lynch mob mentality of the 1930's."

There's one huge difference - the reason why so many blacks in that area were quick to judge, quick to anger, quick to riot, appears to be because of the way they've been treated by law enforcement in the past.  They've been discriminated against, they've felt that they lived their lives at a huge disadvantage, where the people who are supposed to be protecting them seem to be out to get them.  I'm not going to pretend to know what that feels like, to live that way.  What was the reasoning for the "lynch mob mentality of the 1930s?"

I think the majority of Americans feel the the violent riots are a bad thing. It's not the way to go about getting change.


"What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?" 

There are a shitton of people who jump to conclusions about so many things, it doesn't just pertain to blacks. But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life, I at least understand the jump to conclusion here. Again, that doesn't mean you can destroy property.

This.

It's not reverse racism. It certainly isn't anything close to a reverse of the 1930's (let me know when white people start hanging from trees for having the nerve to talk to a black person or use the wrong restroom). It's "holy ****, it's almost 2015 and blacks are still facing systematic racism, time to break some ****."

It's certainly not the best way to get anything done but these riots are less about change and more about frustration.

*******.  OF COURSE IT'S REVERSE RACISM.  Which is still racism.

Denial that it couldn't possibly be that it why it's still so pervasive in American society.

Sorry to ruin your day BL, but if this is truly your belief, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

As long as skin color is used as a definition instead of an adjective, nothing is going to change.

Only one of us is in denial here. Just a hint, it's not me.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/25/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/25/2014 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/25/2014 12:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 11/25/2014 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/25/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):
"and all it's doing is making the blacks in those communities look bad, and reinforcing the ideas racists minds already have."

Are you implying that the only racists here are the ones who are commenting about how the blacks in Ferguson are acting, both immediately after this incident happened in August, and again after last night's announcement?

What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?  The people who already were convicting of Darren Wilson of murder before the body was cold.

I'll go back to my comments from earlier this morning.  The mentality of the black community in Ferguson, and by a number of members of PC America, is no different than the lynch mob mentality of the 1930's.  Only the colors of those on both sides have reversed.  We haven't come very far.

That should be troubling to us all.  America needs to stop pretending that racism can only be narrowly defined, and acknowledge that it's a two-way street.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

I think the person who said that would have something to say about what's going on today.

So you're saying all racism is wrong? I don't disagree.


"The mentality of the black community in Ferguson, and by a number of members of PC America, is no different than the lynch mob mentality of the 1930's."

There's one huge difference - the reason why so many blacks in that area were quick to judge, quick to anger, quick to riot, appears to be because of the way they've been treated by law enforcement in the past.  They've been discriminated against, they've felt that they lived their lives at a huge disadvantage, where the people who are supposed to be protecting them seem to be out to get them.  I'm not going to pretend to know what that feels like, to live that way.  What was the reasoning for the "lynch mob mentality of the 1930s?"

I think the majority of Americans feel the the violent riots are a bad thing. It's not the way to go about getting change.


"What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?" 

There are a shitton of people who jump to conclusions about so many things, it doesn't just pertain to blacks. But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life, I at least understand the jump to conclusion here. Again, that doesn't mean you can destroy property.

This.

It's not reverse racism. It certainly isn't anything close to a reverse of the 1930's (let me know when white people start hanging from trees for having the nerve to talk to a black person or use the wrong restroom). It's "holy ****, it's almost 2015 and blacks are still facing systematic racism, time to break some ****."

It's certainly not the best way to get anything done but these riots are less about change and more about frustration.

*******.  OF COURSE IT'S REVERSE RACISM.  Which is still racism.

Denial that it couldn't possibly be that it why it's still so pervasive in American society.

Sorry to ruin your day BL, but if this is truly your belief, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

As long as skin color is used as a definition instead of an adjective, nothing is going to change.

Only one of us is in denial here. Just a hint, it's not me.

So black people can't be racist?

Posted by burnsy483 on 11/25/2014 12:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/25/2014 12:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 11/25/2014 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/25/2014 12:24:00 PM (view original):
And, as I've said a million times, when you give people an excuse, they will use it.

"But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life" is a fine example.   Go ahead and loot/riot.   You've been beaten down by law enforcement all your life, it's understandable. 

For ****'s sake.

That's the media narrative.

It gives them a chance for "LIVE: UPDATE FROM FERGUSON!!!!"  news bulletins.

I wonder how the Irish, Italian, and Jewish immigrants that were once so disliked and mistreated in america that they had to form our first gangs can now flourish peacefully? Or how Jews and minorities from the 1940s that were slaughtered for no good reason have rebounded so quickly in Europe? Or why we never see Asians or other minority groups that do well in this country rising up and crying 'inequality'? I wonder what their leaders preach to them?

I think a lot can be learned on how to get out of poverty from these groups... No.... I KNOW a lot can be learned.

Are you suggesting that African-Americans were viewed the same way as Irish and Italians Americans in the 1800s and early 1900s? Seriously?

You're suggesting what can be learned is "work hard." And seem to think that that's all it takes. 

With moy I'm never sure what he's suggesting.

Racism exists.   It always will.   There will always be a sector of humanity that says "They're not the same as me.  **** them."

But, and I'm hoping this is his point, destroying the city you live in will not further you.   If nothing else, it sets you back locally and nationally.   And the people who look like you.

Posted by tecwrg on 11/25/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/25/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/25/2014 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/25/2014 12:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 11/25/2014 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/25/2014 10:43:00 AM (view original):
"and all it's doing is making the blacks in those communities look bad, and reinforcing the ideas racists minds already have."

Are you implying that the only racists here are the ones who are commenting about how the blacks in Ferguson are acting, both immediately after this incident happened in August, and again after last night's announcement?

What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?  The people who already were convicting of Darren Wilson of murder before the body was cold.

I'll go back to my comments from earlier this morning.  The mentality of the black community in Ferguson, and by a number of members of PC America, is no different than the lynch mob mentality of the 1930's.  Only the colors of those on both sides have reversed.  We haven't come very far.

That should be troubling to us all.  America needs to stop pretending that racism can only be narrowly defined, and acknowledge that it's a two-way street.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

I think the person who said that would have something to say about what's going on today.

So you're saying all racism is wrong? I don't disagree.


"The mentality of the black community in Ferguson, and by a number of members of PC America, is no different than the lynch mob mentality of the 1930's."

There's one huge difference - the reason why so many blacks in that area were quick to judge, quick to anger, quick to riot, appears to be because of the way they've been treated by law enforcement in the past.  They've been discriminated against, they've felt that they lived their lives at a huge disadvantage, where the people who are supposed to be protecting them seem to be out to get them.  I'm not going to pretend to know what that feels like, to live that way.  What was the reasoning for the "lynch mob mentality of the 1930s?"

I think the majority of Americans feel the the violent riots are a bad thing. It's not the way to go about getting change.


"What about those who IMMEDIATELY demanded JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL BROWN, before anything close to resembling facts were known?" 

There are a shitton of people who jump to conclusions about so many things, it doesn't just pertain to blacks. But when you've been figuratively been beaten down by law enforcement your entire life, I at least understand the jump to conclusion here. Again, that doesn't mean you can destroy property.

This.

It's not reverse racism. It certainly isn't anything close to a reverse of the 1930's (let me know when white people start hanging from trees for having the nerve to talk to a black person or use the wrong restroom). It's "holy ****, it's almost 2015 and blacks are still facing systematic racism, time to break some ****."

It's certainly not the best way to get anything done but these riots are less about change and more about frustration.

*******.  OF COURSE IT'S REVERSE RACISM.  Which is still racism.

Denial that it couldn't possibly be that it why it's still so pervasive in American society.

Sorry to ruin your day BL, but if this is truly your belief, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

As long as skin color is used as a definition instead of an adjective, nothing is going to change.

Only one of us is in denial here. Just a hint, it's not me.

So black people can't be racist?

Individuals can and will be racist in any direction. That's not what I'm talking about.

The riots are happening because the black community is fed up with the systematic racism in America. That systematic racism is very real and isn't reversing against white people in any way.

"The riots are happening because the black community is fed up with the systematic racism in America. That systematic racism is very real and isn't reversing against white people in any way."

That may be true, but it should be pointed out to them that this issue is not an example of systemic racism.