Posted by tecwrg on 11/13/2014 12:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/13/2014 12:16:00 PM (view original):
Obama determined as ever to bypass Congress.

It's a negotiating tactic.

The threat has to be credible or it's ignored. Republicans do the same thing.

Will it still be a "negotiating tactic" after he actually does it?

It really won't matter if he does it - he's LOOKING for a fight from republicans to make them look like anti-immigration lunitics. The Republicans just need to stay cool and piece mail solid immigration and border laws the constitutional way. In 2 years the stroke of a pen will make most of Obamas executive orders disappear. Laws will stick.

Good luck bringing bills to a vote in the Senate.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Good luck bringing bills to a vote in the Senate.

I support Obamas executive order. It will set democrats back for many many years when 5,000,000 new workers legally enter the labor market... Not to mention the other healthcare and education burdens that citizens will have to pick up the tab on. I'm all for Obama making this statement, all by himself.

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Good luck bringing bills to a vote in the Senate.

I support Obamas executive order. It will set democrats back for many many years when 5,000,000 new workers legally enter the labor market... Not to mention the other healthcare and education burdens that citizens will have to pick up the tab on. I'm all for Obama making this statement, all by himself.

Partisanship over effective government for the win!

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Good luck bringing bills to a vote in the Senate.

I support Obamas executive order. It will set democrats back for many many years when 5,000,000 new workers legally enter the labor market... Not to mention the other healthcare and education burdens that citizens will have to pick up the tab on. I'm all for Obama making this statement, all by himself.

I imagine they have family, at least extended, here.    That's probably 12m-15m voters who'll love Obama.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Good luck bringing bills to a vote in the Senate.

I support Obamas executive order. It will set democrats back for many many years when 5,000,000 new workers legally enter the labor market... Not to mention the other healthcare and education burdens that citizens will have to pick up the tab on. I'm all for Obama making this statement, all by himself.

Partisanship over effective government for the win!

Not really... Obama can do what he wants.

Most of the country including Latinos favor securing the borders first. The republicans can get that through with bipartisanship votes. Then they can focus on the immigration issue piece by piece... Not as a whole. Republicans are not wholly against immigration like Obama wants people to think... There is common ground.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/13/2014 2:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Good luck bringing bills to a vote in the Senate.

I support Obamas executive order. It will set democrats back for many many years when 5,000,000 new workers legally enter the labor market... Not to mention the other healthcare and education burdens that citizens will have to pick up the tab on. I'm all for Obama making this statement, all by himself.

I imagine they have family, at least extended, here.    That's probably 12m-15m voters who'll love Obama.

I should have said I'm indifferent to whatever Obama does. He can only issue work visas, not citizenship. Congress has to pass citizenship.

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 3:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Good luck bringing bills to a vote in the Senate.

I support Obamas executive order. It will set democrats back for many many years when 5,000,000 new workers legally enter the labor market... Not to mention the other healthcare and education burdens that citizens will have to pick up the tab on. I'm all for Obama making this statement, all by himself.

Partisanship over effective government for the win!

Not really... Obama can do what he wants.

Most of the country including Latinos favor securing the borders first. The republicans can get that through with bipartisanship votes. Then they can focus on the immigration issue piece by piece... Not as a whole. Republicans are not wholly against immigration like Obama wants people to think... There is common ground.

You keep bringing up border security like it's a binary. It's not. There is no thing as a 100% secure border and just about everyone (aside from a handful of people on the far right and far left) will say yes when asked, "are you in favor of a secure border."

How secure is the important question.

Let's call current security Y. Maybe Y isn't good enough. Maybe Yx2 is possible. Is that good enough? Is it affordable? Is it worth the increased inconvenience? Border security isn't simple or black and white.

Terrorist attacks and disease.


The Fox News is strong in this one.

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 3:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 3:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 3:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2014 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Good luck bringing bills to a vote in the Senate.

I support Obamas executive order. It will set democrats back for many many years when 5,000,000 new workers legally enter the labor market... Not to mention the other healthcare and education burdens that citizens will have to pick up the tab on. I'm all for Obama making this statement, all by himself.

Partisanship over effective government for the win!

Not really... Obama can do what he wants.

Most of the country including Latinos favor securing the borders first. The republicans can get that through with bipartisanship votes. Then they can focus on the immigration issue piece by piece... Not as a whole. Republicans are not wholly against immigration like Obama wants people to think... There is common ground.

You keep bringing up border security like it's a binary. It's not. There is no thing as a 100% secure border and just about everyone (aside from a handful of people on the far right and far left) will say yes when asked, "are you in favor of a secure border."

How secure is the important question.

Let's call current security Y. Maybe Y isn't good enough. Maybe Yx2 is possible. Is that good enough? Is it affordable? Is it worth the increased inconvenience? Border security isn't simple or black and white.

Precisely... Which is why it will take time to do it right. Our ports, airports, and literal borders can be more secure... Especially with the elevated threat of terrorist attacks and disease. What's the rush for full amnesty?

Anybody with a thinking brain knows you plug the leak first before you try and get the excess water out.

Can they be more secure? Maybe. Are we willing to pay the price (in terms of actual dollars and inconvenience/loss of liberty)

Airports put in the full body scan machines and people on both sides of the political aisle freaked out. We weren't willing to go that far in the name of security.

If you say, "we can't do X until the borders are secure," you are essentially saying, "I don't ever want to do X," because the borders will never be 100% secure.

Posted by The Taint on 11/13/2014 3:39:00 PM (view original):
Terrorist attacks and disease.


The Fox News is strong in this one.

He is hitting the Limbaugh Talking Points.

The fact is the conservatives want the illegals gone.  Except, of course, the illegals that provide the cheap labor.
The liberals want them to stay.   Of course, for the voting edge they will get for doing so.

Both sides scream "We want better border security" in order to satisfy a portion of their voting base. 
And the Repubs use this as a tool to attempt to prevent amnesty for illegals.

Neither side gives a flying **** about Juan crossing the border.   Both want the votes from having a position.

I nearly fell off my stool... At the bar reading an article my father in law sent to me from the WSJ. The article had a chart demonstrating people are happier with more money at all income levels. Then I checked who did the chart and the study it came from... Betsey Stevenson (Obama's cheif economist, dept of labor). A Democrat.

Here is the chart URL
http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WE-AA766B_HAPPY_9U_20141107152410.jpg

Here is an article with a link to the study....
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/science-money-makes-you-happier-2013-04-30


In summary:

"The correlation between increased income and increased happiness is no different with the rich than it is with the poor, the study finds. The “positive association between family income and reported well-being is remarkably consistent and shows no signs of petering out even at very high incomes,” the study reports. This proves as consistent when making cross-national comparisons between rich and poor countries as when making comparisons between rich and poor people within a country, Stevenson and Wolfers conclude."






What was that term BL was using regarding cheeseburgers and income??? LAUGH... OUT.... LOUD

Posted by moy23 on 11/13/2014 6:13:00 PM (view original):
I nearly fell off my stool... At the bar reading an article my father in law sent to me from the WSJ. The article had a chart demonstrating people are happier with more money at all income levels. Then I checked who did the chart and the study it came from... Betsey Stevenson (Obama's cheif economist, dept of labor). A Democrat.

Here is the chart URL
http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WE-AA766B_HAPPY_9U_20141107152410.jpg

Here is an article with a link to the study....
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/science-money-makes-you-happier-2013-04-30


In summary:

"The correlation between increased income and increased happiness is no different with the rich than it is with the poor, the study finds. The “positive association between family income and reported well-being is remarkably consistent and shows no signs of petering out even at very high incomes,” the study reports. This proves as consistent when making cross-national comparisons between rich and poor countries as when making comparisons between rich and poor people within a country, Stevenson and Wolfers conclude."






What was that term BL was using regarding cheeseburgers and income??? LAUGH... OUT.... LOUD

A few things:

1) Who the **** reads a study like that at the bar? It's 17 pages of economic analysis and another 7 pages of graphs.

2) It's one study. Maybe it's right. Maybe the conclusions of the multiple researchers they reference in the beginning of the study (Diener, Seligman, Clark, Frijters, Shields, etc) are all wrong.

3) Even if all of those researchers are wrong, it's good to know that you acknowledge that the idea that the value of money diminishes as an individual accumulates more is a widely held idea in economics and not some ridiculous thing I made up to troll you.

4) You find that laugh out loud funny???

Edit 5) Good to know that you a) tell your father in law about me and b) think about me while you're sitting at the bar. I'm not into dudes, but if I was, that kind of obsession might get you somewhere.