Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 11:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2014 11:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 11:23:00 PM (view original):
Yay victim blaming!

Yay ignorance!

For real. The idea that a guy gets the blame for legally exercising his rights is incredibly ignorant.

If I get beat down and mugged 'legally' walking down the sidewalk in Compton .... Since I know its unsafe for a white dude to do and I did it anyway.... Who do I really have to blame as I'm laying in the hospital reflecting on the incident?

Maybe that's the difference with you and I - I'd blame myself and learn from my mistake.... You'd blame the guys that beat me up. Sure they broke the law.... But I paid with my wallet and my health for it because I made a stupid decision in the first place.

That's really all it boils down to.    An individual makes a decision.   Right, wrong, within his rights, etc, etc, it doesn't matter.   There may be consequences and then you have to deal with them.    Mr. Benchguy decided to excercise his rights rather than simply show his ID.   He got tased for his efforts.  Will he prevail in court?  We'll see.  But he still got tased.   Might have been easier to say "I'm not doing anything.  You legally can't ask for my ID.  But here it is because I don't want to be hassled" and not get zapped.

I think the police should be held to a higher standard than gangs in Compton.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2014 10:38:00 AM (view original):
I think the police should be held to a higher standard than gangs in Compton.

Oooh, I didn't realize this was a non sequitur contest.

I think parents shouldn't allow their kids to shoot Uzis.

Posted by toddcommish on 8/30/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2014 10:38:00 AM (view original):
I think the police should be held to a higher standard than gangs in Compton.

Oooh, I didn't realize this was a non sequitur contest.

I think parents shouldn't allow their kids to shoot Uzis.

Is that a non-sequitur?

Cops make reasonable request.
Guy legally and reasonably refuses the request.
Cops tase and arrest guy.

Who should be blamed? What standard should we hold cops/guy to?

If you're going to say guy should have known better, what does that say about the standard we hold police to?

Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2014 10:38:00 AM (view original):
I think the police should be held to a higher standard than gangs in Compton.

I hold NFL players to a high standard.... Doesn't mean I'm going to call a lineman the n word or pick a fight with a linebacker.

I hold cops to a high standard as well ... But I'm not dumb enough to think all cops will use restraint if I provoke them. They have a gun. I don't. Sadly Michael Brown figured this out the hard way.... As did your MN bench guy.

You know why I don't text when walking across the street legally at a crosswalk? Cause I weigh 200 lbs and a car weighs 2000 lbs. Yes I have the rightaway but I'm not stupid enough to think all drivers are paying attention to the road like they 'should' be. If I got hit I'd be in the hospital if not dead... At this point I really wouldn't care how badly the driver is prosecuted or how much $ I can sue for since Im the one in pain, or permanently crippled. The text would not have been worth it and could have waited til I got to the other side.

Do you need more examples? Its not rocket science.

The difference, obviously, is that this guy didn't pick a fight. The cops made a request, he legally refused. At this point, neither side was unreasonable. Then the cops got out the taser. Who should we be blaming?

Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2014 3:37:00 PM (view original):
The difference, obviously, is that this guy didn't pick a fight. The cops made a request, he legally refused. At this point, neither side was unreasonable. Then the cops got out the taser. Who should we be blaming?

He picked a fight when he didn't show his ID upon request. He furthered that fight by saying 'the problem here is I'm black', and finally he wasn't listening to them when they did decide to arrest him. Its not that hard to put your hands behind your back when asked. The street was not the place to make a stand... The court room is. Arguing with cops is a dumb idea.

Regarding your crosswalk example. If you stood at the corner, waited for the traffic light to turn red, and then crossed when the signal said to, no one would blame you if a driver ran the red light and hit you. Even if you could have avoided it by being more alert or paying better attention. The driver is the one at fault.

Dude in MN followed the law, wasn't unreasonable, and yet you want to blame him for the actions of the police.

Posted by moy23 on 8/30/2014 3:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2014 3:37:00 PM (view original):
The difference, obviously, is that this guy didn't pick a fight. The cops made a request, he legally refused. At this point, neither side was unreasonable. Then the cops got out the taser. Who should we be blaming?

He picked a fight when he didn't show his ID upon request. He furthered that fight by saying 'the problem here is I'm black', and finally he wasn't listening to them when they did decide to arrest him. Its not that hard to put your hands behind your back when asked. The street was not the place to make a stand... The court room is. Arguing with cops is a dumb idea.

Legally refusing to show ID is not picking a fight.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2014 3:51:00 PM (view original):
Regarding your crosswalk example. If you stood at the corner, waited for the traffic light to turn red, and then crossed when the signal said to, no one would blame you if a driver ran the red light and hit you. Even if you could have avoided it by being more alert or paying better attention. The driver is the one at fault.

Dude in MN followed the law, wasn't unreasonable, and yet you want to blame him for the actions of the police.

See I'm not looking to blame here.... Its not about pointing fingers. The cop could go to jail for all I care... Michael Brown is still DEAD... The MN guy was still tased.... And the hypothetical car that hit me can be fixed much more easily than my broken body.

My point is ALL of these scenarios could be avoided with better judgment.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2014 3:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/30/2014 3:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2014 3:37:00 PM (view original):
The difference, obviously, is that this guy didn't pick a fight. The cops made a request, he legally refused. At this point, neither side was unreasonable. Then the cops got out the taser. Who should we be blaming?

He picked a fight when he didn't show his ID upon request. He furthered that fight by saying 'the problem here is I'm black', and finally he wasn't listening to them when they did decide to arrest him. Its not that hard to put your hands behind your back when asked. The street was not the place to make a stand... The court room is. Arguing with cops is a dumb idea.

Legally refusing to show ID is not picking a fight.

You are right.... Its an invitation to bring more police to the party... Just like refusing a breathalyzer or the search of your car. Now you have to explain yourself to 3-4 more hopped up cops. How exactly does this help ones cause?

Posted by moy23 on 8/30/2014 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2014 3:51:00 PM (view original):
Regarding your crosswalk example. If you stood at the corner, waited for the traffic light to turn red, and then crossed when the signal said to, no one would blame you if a driver ran the red light and hit you. Even if you could have avoided it by being more alert or paying better attention. The driver is the one at fault.

Dude in MN followed the law, wasn't unreasonable, and yet you want to blame him for the actions of the police.

See I'm not looking to blame here.... Its not about pointing fingers. The cop could go to jail for all I care... Michael Brown is still DEAD... The MN guy was still tased.... And the hypothetical car that hit me can be fixed much more easily than my broken body.

My point is ALL of these scenarios could be avoided with better judgment.

BL and taint seem to think that it's much better to get shot or tased as a matter of standing on principle.  Because, you know, you're in the right.