I'm pretty sure the guy in MN (or the cop in MN) didn't have this internal debate that we're having here.

And if two parties are both looking for a fight, and one of them has a gun and a taser, I know who I'm gonna bet on in the fight.  He might lose in court later (and there's no follow-up evidence to say that was the case), but I know which one is gonna get his *** kicked.

Seriously, watch the Chris Rock video.  It'll tell you and everyone else "HOW NOT TO GET YOUR *** KICKED BY THE POLICE"

Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2014 8:18:00 PM (view original):
Well one down:


http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/crime/2014/08/29/tsr-fuentes-ferguson-officer-resigns.cnn.html

Like the idiot on the bench in MN.... This cop is living with the consequence of his poor decision. He could have handled it differently. Its no different.

Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2014 8:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2014 8:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2014 8:18:00 PM (view original):
Well one down:


http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/crime/2014/08/29/tsr-fuentes-ferguson-officer-resigns.cnn.html

Like the idiot on the bench in MN.... This cop is living with the consequence of his poor decision. He could have handled it differently. Its no different.

Refusing to show your ID when you legally don't have to and pointing a loaded rifle at someone threatening to kill them is the same thing? 

Yes... Both poor choices with consequences

Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2014 8:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2014 7:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 7:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2014 7:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 7:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2014 7:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 7:35:00 PM (view original):
Sure. But it's clear from the first officer's interaction with him that they don't suspect him of a crime. Also, no one reported a crime.

So.... Back to mikes point. This guy can either show ID when they asked or go back to the station until the police can ID him. Reasonable cause is sorted out in court.... Not on the street. Once this guy goes down the racism road he's dug his own grave. I'm not saying the cops were right.... I'm saying this guy may have been right, but being right at the wrong time is wrong. He should have settled this in court and he'd have won without getting tased.

That's not the way it works.

Woah..... So legal issues or complaints are not handled in court? How are they handled? With riots? With calling people racist? How are they handled? Enlighten me, how DOES it work?

If that was the way it worked, cops could detain anyone, anytime without reason. They actually have to suspect you of a crime to detain you.

So how DOES it work?

If a cop wanted to detain you, rightfully or not, do you fight it out with the cop or in court?

You ask if you are under arrest.  If/when they say no, you leave.

And if you act like a dick and become argumentative with the cop, and turn around to "leave" . . . . the cop will always let you go?

Posted by tecwrg on 8/29/2014 9:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2014 8:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2014 7:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 7:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2014 7:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 7:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2014 7:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 7:35:00 PM (view original):
Sure. But it's clear from the first officer's interaction with him that they don't suspect him of a crime. Also, no one reported a crime.

So.... Back to mikes point. This guy can either show ID when they asked or go back to the station until the police can ID him. Reasonable cause is sorted out in court.... Not on the street. Once this guy goes down the racism road he's dug his own grave. I'm not saying the cops were right.... I'm saying this guy may have been right, but being right at the wrong time is wrong. He should have settled this in court and he'd have won without getting tased.

That's not the way it works.

Woah..... So legal issues or complaints are not handled in court? How are they handled? With riots? With calling people racist? How are they handled? Enlighten me, how DOES it work?

If that was the way it worked, cops could detain anyone, anytime without reason. They actually have to suspect you of a crime to detain you.

So how DOES it work?

If a cop wanted to detain you, rightfully or not, do you fight it out with the cop or in court?

You ask if you are under arrest.  If/when they say no, you leave.

And if you act like a dick and become argumentative with the cop, and turn around to "leave" . . . . the cop will always let you go?

It goes beyond that.... Let's just say this guy asks if he's under arrest and the cops say no. He goes to leave and they still demand he show ID.... He is still better off complying (rather than calling them racist) and then fighting it out in court. Cops aren't perfect. That's why so many people win civil suits brought up against police.

I call it the 'principle rule'.... Once you do something 'based on principle' you've already lost. For instance - "I'm not paying that bill because they overcharged me... Its the principle!" Great.... You made a stand on principle - good for you- and now the company has forgotten you and your credit now sucks due to a collection item. Pay the bill and fight all the way to the CEO if you have to to get it reimbursed. That's the best course of action.

Yay victim blaming!

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 11:23:00 PM (view original):
Yay victim blaming!

Yay ignorance!

Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2014 11:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 11:23:00 PM (view original):
Yay victim blaming!

Yay ignorance!

For real. The idea that a guy gets the blame for legally exercising his rights is incredibly ignorant.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2014 11:23:00 PM (view original):
Yay victim blaming!

Call it whatever you want.

The reality is that if you know that action "x" will likely lead to result "y", and you don't want result "y" to happen, then don't do action "x" if you have a choice.

You have a choice when dealing with cops.  You can cooperate when they ask you a question.  Or you can act like a dick.