Why was the Starter pulled for a Relief Pitcher? Topic

Trentonjoe
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I would think he didn't get pulled because it wasn't a save situation.  

I think the SIM averages about 3.5 pitches per batter (with strikeouts and walks being higher).  Maybe he threw 12 pitches in the 9th?

I am just guessing but I think it makes sense.
7/22/2010 8:33 AM
believeit
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TJ, why wasn't one of the available setup pitchers brought in instead?

The starting pitcher is pitching well late in the game:

a) If it is a save situation, bring in the closer if the SP's H+BB > IP (even if his set TPC has not been reached, but is close).

b) If it is not a save situation, leave the SP in (even if his set MPC has been exceeded, but is close).

So, is this the decision that the SIM engine makes?  Maybe I'm not as smart as the rest of you, but it still does not make sense to me.

 

7/22/2010 9:01 PM
Trentonjoe
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My guess is that the SIM "weighs" the closer more than Set Up guys.  The SIM probably WANTS to bring the closer in (and their is a certain logic to this, the situations for a closer are limitied) so it looks for a reason to do so.

Also, in your b) above, Carlton didn't exceed his Max PC until the last batter.  That might have something to do with going over the 135.

That's my guess!
7/22/2010 10:24 PM
mixtroy
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I have to ride with Napolean on this.  You might not agree with the way Sparky analyzed it, but I can certainly understand the reasoning behind it.  And I guarantee you, had Sparky left Carlton in and he lost, you would be crying for the closer to come in. LOL
7/24/2010 5:33 PM
pfattkatt
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I would ask what was Carlton's pull setting? Closers will almost always brought in in a save situation. Pitchers that I have with a pull setting of 1 very rarely get pulled before reaching their TPC, if they are removed, it is almost always because they were PH for. But if the SP is set to anything higher than 1, the closer will come in for the 9th (or earlier, depending on how I have my closer set up) in a save situation. I can't remember ever having my closer PH for, except in situations where he blew the save, and extended the game'
7/25/2010 12:26 PM
believeit
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Carlton's call bullpen was set to 1.  Any pitcher with as many as 360 IP/162 I want to pitch as much as possible.

As I have previously noted, this has been happening lately with a lot of different pitchers that I have used with 300+ IP/162 in 4-man rotations.  In order for them to average 7.5+ innings per start, they need to pitch a few complete games to offset some early exits (even with the call setting at 1) due to poor starts.

7/25/2010 11:05 PM
believeit
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Carlton has now completed 5 of 16 starts (11 quality starts).

7/25/2010 11:08 PM
pfattkatt
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This is something I never really paid a lot of attention to until this post came along. I have been specializing, so to speak, in 120k theme leagues, and go with a 3 man rotation. I don't know why, but I seem to get less CG's than other managers using the same pitchers. I prefer not to set my PC settings too high, but high enough that there is a reasonable chance they will complete the game. In a save situation, they are almost always pulled for my closer. In a non save situation, they get the CG, most, but not all, of the time.
8/1/2010 6:01 PM
trenchfoot
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Posted by believeit on 7/21/2010 6:54:00 PM (view original):
PM2 game just completed.  "Player of the Game:  Steve Carlton tosses a 8-hit shutout".
 
Player % IP H R ER BB SO HR PC ERA
Steve Carlton, W (8-4) 100 9.0 8 0 0 3 9 0 136 2.49

Same team and league.  8 hits + 3 BB = 11 baserunners in 9 innings.  Carlton's MPC was set to 135.

Actually, I'm glad Carlton finished the shutout, but now I'm really confused! 

He hit 135 pitchers mid-batter and Sparky doesn't pull guys until they finish whoever they're facing. Since TPC was = to MPC, he got him in the general vicinity of 135 pitches (ie target) and exceeded his max mid-batter (probably because TPC isn't generally = to MPC). Sparky probably would have pulled him after that hitter if he hadn't gotten him out to end the game.
8/2/2010 8:26 PM
believeit
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TPC was set to 125.

I never set TPC = MPC.  I set TPC 10 < MPC for SP, and TPC 5 < MPC for RP.
8/2/2010 10:23 PM
uncleal
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TPC only used to determine if he'll start an inning.

And yes, pitchers can exceed MPC rather then get pulled mid-PA.
8/2/2010 10:34 PM
believeit
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According to the WIS Knowledge Base, Article #41, the pitcher "should never exceed his max pitch count (MPC)."

8/6/2010 11:41 AM
uncleal
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Posted by believeit on 8/6/2010 11:41:00 AM (view original):
According to the WIS Knowledge Base, Article #41, the pitcher "should never exceed his max pitch count (MPC)."

Knowledge Base is wrong then. Because of the way the SIM works, it *cannot* pull a pitcher in the middle of an at-bat. This is because it calculates the at-bat all at once, rather then pitch-by-pitch.
8/6/2010 12:58 PM
Trentonjoe
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Posted by uncleal on 8/2/2010 10:34:00 PM (view original):
TPC only used to determine if he'll start an inning.

And yes, pitchers can exceed MPC rather then get pulled mid-PA.
Where did you learn this....I am not doubting you, I just haven't heard it before.
8/7/2010 8:55 AM
uncleal
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Posted by Trentonjoe on 8/7/2010 8:55:00 AM (view original):
Posted by uncleal on 8/2/2010 10:34:00 PM (view original):
TPC only used to determine if he'll start an inning.

And yes, pitchers can exceed MPC rather then get pulled mid-PA.
Where did you learn this....I am not doubting you, I just haven't heard it before.
This has been the case since before they came up with TPCs. In the old FAQs that I no longer have access to. And this fact can be derived from the event tree, where the entirety of the result of the at-bat is calculated before the # of pitches that at-bat required is calculated. (making it not possible for a pitcher to get pulled in the middle of the at-bat)

Same reason you can't pull a pitcher in LIVE in the middle of an at-bat. The SIM simply does not work that way.

8/7/2010 11:35 PM
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