Posted by italyprof on 6/28/2014 4:57:00 AM (view original):
Yes but you can't advance in a playoff situation by losing your last game, but the World Cup is essentially a playoff (since the national teams participating had to previously qualify). 

Baseball is great partly because of how often even a great team does lose or a weak team does win. But reaching the division title though you lost on the last day of the season is not the same as advancing when you didn't manage a win or even lost one or more out of three in a playoff situation like the World Cup. 

And there are still no penalty shots. 

Love the list. But a tournament is different from a playoff. Group play, round-robins, etc., are specific to the tournament format, not to soccer. The same setup is used in thousands of baseball, basketball, lacrosse, hockey and other tournaments. It is not a product of the sport, but a product of needing to quickly narrow a large field without one game determining each entrant's fate. Soccer teams can't play a five-game series in six days because they have to exert themselves.

That a baseball team could play from 8 a.m.-midnight without a loss of quality is not a point in baseball's favor.

There is a loss in quality - pitchers tire, players need days off - they play almost every day. This is why Lou Gehrig and Cal Ripken's accomplishments are so honored. 

IF soccer were played 162 times a year then the relative fatigue of playing time is a factor in comparing the two. Soccer is undoubtedly more intense for an hour and a half than baseball is in 3 hours or more. 

But they play every day, that is the where the fatigue issue comes in. And the quality issue, since it is precisely the long season that determines the outcome, and enables quality players and teams to show the difference between themselves and also-rans. 

Of course they're different types of fatigue. I only brought it up because you list baseball playing every day as a reason it's better. Put it this way (just looking at physical effort, not the many skills needed to be a pro ball player) ... How long would John Kruk, Pablo Sandoval, Prince Fielder or David Ortiz last on a soccer field with a good youth soccer team? On a 90-degree, 70% humidity day in Brazil, they wouldn't make it through the jog onto the field for pregame warmups.

Excluding pitchers, baseball players need a day off every month or two. I'm a lifelong lover of both sports, but the fact that elite soccer players have to recover after each game is a point in its favor, not a reason it's less of a sport.

As for 90 minutes vs. 3 hours, you're reaching now my friend. The stoppage time that so many criticize is built in to make up for the few minutes of that hour and a half when play is not active. So in the end, the 90-minute game features 90 minutes of play. A 3-hour baseball game — or 4, more often — features an average of 14 minutes with the ball in play (2010 WSJ study; defining ball in play as starting when the pitcher begins his motion and ending when the umpire makes a call ending the play). That study also found that a typical baseball broadcast shows 88 minutes of players standing still (excluding time between innings).

There's a significant percentage of MLB players who could handle the rigors of international soccer in terms of fitness and exertion. But 100% of international soccer players would have no trouble with a 162-game baseball season.

John Kruk playing soccer is quite an image. Or Mickey Lolich ! 


Or Yogi Berra...

I was too young to see Mays play when he was Mays. I am a Yankees fan and was overseas for half of the 1990s, so saw little of Bonds and Pujols, but of course they were great players. 

Aaron I saw a little more often, but he was a great, great hitter and a good fielder. Clemente overwhelmed a very strong Baltimore Orioles team in the 1971 World Series which I watched every game of. Greatest outfield arm I ever saw. 

Does that mean he was the best player in my lifetime - not by a good margin. But with the TV watching I actually did of baseball he was the best. I would not compare him to Mays but I was not even born when Mays caught that ball off Vic Wertz and by the 70s when I was actively watching baseball, he was a shadow of what he had been. 

Mostly I was being nice to a Clemente fan that assumed that my list involved some order of preference or importance which it did not except that penalty shots to decide a winner is the dumbest thing in sports.

Imagine if boxing did this: Well fans, at the end of 12 rounds for the Heavyweight championship of the world the judges have it tied, 6 rounds a piece. So each boxer will now stand one foot from the other and take turns just wacking the other guy while standing still until one of them falls down...

Penalty kicks do suck.  Hockey has the same problem.  Though you can understand why, given the distances soccer players run and the typical quality of play during extra time periods, they can't adhere to the basketball/baseball model of just tacking more and more game on at the end.  Most of the domestic cups use replays instead of the penalty shootout, but the big international tournaments (both international and club sides) tend to be more likely to require penalties as a result of limited flexibility in terms of venues and tighter and stricter time schedules.

Posted by italyprof on 7/16/2014 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Imagine if boxing did this: Well fans, at the end of 12 rounds for the Heavyweight championship of the world the judges have it tied, 6 rounds a piece. So each boxer will now stand one foot from the other and take turns just wacking the other guy while standing still until one of them falls down...

rock-em-sock-em boxers! that would make a cool toy!

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/16/2014 5:27:00 PM (view original):
Penalty kicks do suck.  Hockey has the same problem.  Though you can understand why, given the distances soccer players run and the typical quality of play during extra time periods, they can't adhere to the basketball/baseball model of just tacking more and more game on at the end.  Most of the domestic cups use replays instead of the penalty shootout, but the big international tournaments (both international and club sides) tend to be more likely to require penalties as a result of limited flexibility in terms of venues and tighter and stricter time schedules.

The shootout in hockey is only during the regular season though...when it matters and the Stanley Cup is on the line it is sudden death until someone scores. Just like extra innings.

Posted by frazzman80 on 7/16/2014 6:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/16/2014 5:27:00 PM (view original):
Penalty kicks do suck.  Hockey has the same problem.  Though you can understand why, given the distances soccer players run and the typical quality of play during extra time periods, they can't adhere to the basketball/baseball model of just tacking more and more game on at the end.  Most of the domestic cups use replays instead of the penalty shootout, but the big international tournaments (both international and club sides) tend to be more likely to require penalties as a result of limited flexibility in terms of venues and tighter and stricter time schedules.

The shootout in hockey is only during the regular season though...when it matters and the Stanley Cup is on the line it is sudden death until someone scores. Just like extra innings.

In soccer, you just let the tie stand in the regular season... so penalties is more of a resolution than that. :P

I disagree.  I think the draw is a far more fair and reasonable outcome than a basically arbitrary tiebreaker.  I mean, it's a little better than flipping a coin, but not by all that much...