You clearly don't see Manning failures.

"The stats speak for themselves."

Bistiza, you're making yourself look really stupid. It's clear your hatred of Brady has you blinded.

Would he have put up the numbers he has on the Browns? This hurts to say, but probably close. The Superbowls? Maybe not, but he'd still have been able to put the ball in his receivers' hands just as well.

Name your good QBs. Would Aaron Rodgers be as good as he's been if you put him on the Rams? Drew Brees with the Chiefs the last few years? Any QB gets worse with a bad team, so your entire Brady argument is a fallacy. Everything you're using against him - your stupid "what ifs" - apply the same to ALL QBs.

Posted by bistiza on 2/28/2013 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Super Bowl wins. Postseason wins. Regular season wins. Stats inflated by a talented team and a specific system.

Those are all reasons people commonly over rate Brady.

When you cite those as reasons why he's great, all you're really doing is saying "I over rate Brady".

So can't count super bowl wins,  can't count playoff wins, can't count regular season wins, and can't count any of his stats.  He did nothing on his own, and is a complete product of everyone he played with.  The one season he doesn't play...his team misses the playoffs.  Even his women are over rated. 



Sounds rational to me.

You dumb ****.

Would he have put up the numbers he has on the Browns? This hurts to say, but probably close.

No, not close. Not anywhere in the vicinity. He's just not that good, and that's the point.

Any QB gets worse with a bad team, so your entire Brady argument is a fallacy.

My point is while Brees and Rodgers would not put up the same stats with worse players, the drop off wouldn't be that significant. However, with Brady, the drop off would be severe, because the talent around him is what carries him to the stats, and without it he'd be another average QB.

Everything you're using against him - your stupid "what ifs" - apply the same to ALL QBs.

Except the other QBs considered great have more talent and ability than Brady does, so they wouldn't drop off nearly as much. That's the point.

Posted by bistiza on 3/1/2013 9:01:00 AM (view original):

Would he have put up the numbers he has on the Browns? This hurts to say, but probably close.

No, not close. Not anywhere in the vicinity. He's just not that good, and that's the point.

Any QB gets worse with a bad team, so your entire Brady argument is a fallacy.

My point is while Brees and Rodgers would not put up the same stats with worse players, the drop off wouldn't be that significant. However, with Brady, the drop off would be severe, because the talent around him is what carries him to the stats, and without it he'd be another average QB.

Everything you're using against him - your stupid "what ifs" - apply the same to ALL QBs.

Except the other QBs considered great have more talent and ability than Brady does, so they wouldn't drop off nearly as much. That's the point.

You can't seriously say that Brady wouldn't put up those numbers.  That's not the point.  We can't ever know that....and if that is your argument, then your argument is very flawed.

How can you say that Brees and Rodgers "drop off" wouldn't be as bad as Brady's.  Where the hell is your proof?

What is the talent that the other QB's have that Brady doesn't have?  Only thing you can say is his mobility.  Brady has amazing pocket presence.  Extremely fast release on his passes.  High football IQ (granted not as high as Mannings).  The fact that you don't see any of his "skills" just shows your blind hatred.

Now shut up, grab your ball and go home.

You can't seriously say that Brady wouldn't put up those numbers. 

We all agreed Brady wouldn't do as well if he didn't have talented receivers. Now you suddenly want to go back on that and say we can't determine if he wouldn't do as well.

No, we can determine. It's simple logic. Worse receivers equals worse QB production.

I'm just using more logic to say that since Brady is less talented than just about any QB anyone says is great, he would experience a greater drop off than those QBs would if he had less talent around him.

How can you say that Brees and Rodgers "drop off" wouldn't be as bad as Brady's.  Where the hell is your proof?

They are more talented than Brady is. I already explained how Brady doesn't possess a number of abilities.

All QB's will produce worse numbers with worse talent around them.  We've established that already.

You have ZERO logic.

You have zero facts about regarding Brady's skills and abilities. 

Yes, all QBs will prorduce worse numbers with worse talent around them. Brady, however, will struggle more than any truly great QB because he simply doesn't have great talent.

His great numbers are ONLY because of the talent around him. That is the point.

Seriously, I wish there was a way we could go back and literally plug the same group of crap receivers or O-line  in for truly great QBs like Manning and then give them to Brady and watch the greats struggle some but Brady struggle much more.

The guy doesn't have the skills of a great QB. That's why I don't consider him great like you do.

Posted by bistiza on 3/1/2013 10:50:00 AM (view original):
Yes, all QBs will prorduce worse numbers with worse talent around them. Brady, however, will struggle more than any truly great QB because he simply doesn't have great talent.

His great numbers are ONLY because of the talent around him. That is the point.

YOU HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE TO BACK THAT UP.  (sorry cresty for using all caps.  I just hope that the caps will actually be visible to bis)

Again, so Brady is the only QB to put up great numbers because of talent around him....while other put up great numbers and make the talent around better.  Got it.  Great statistical analysis. 

Posted by bistiza on 3/1/2013 10:51:00 AM (view original):
Seriously, I wish there was a way we could go back and literally plug the same group of crap receivers or O-line  in for truly great QBs like Manning and then give them to Brady and watch the greats struggle some but Brady struggle much more.

The guy doesn't have the skills of a great QB. That's why I don't consider him great like you do.

That is YOUR opinion.  Not fact.

YOU HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE TO BACK THAT UP.

The evidence is right there in what Brady can and cannot do, as I already explained.

Sure, it's my opinion Brady isn't great. The reason is because of his lack of skills.

Posted by bistiza on 3/1/2013 10:50:00 AM (view original):
Yes, all QBs will prorduce worse numbers with worse talent around them. Brady, however, will struggle more than any truly great QB because he simply doesn't have great talent.

His great numbers are ONLY because of the talent around him. That is the point.

You know he will struggle more based on what? When has Brady ever struggled for a prolonged period of time?