2017 HOF Ballot Topic

Got_Worms
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Some great 1st year eligibles coming on the ballot next year.

Pudge, Guerrero, and Manny all up for election in 2017.

Who's got your vote?

http://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/future-eligibles#2017-eligibles

11/23/2015 3:08 PM
bad_luck
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Manny and Pudge are probably it for me. Don't think I'd vote for Vlad.

Assuming that only Griffey and Piazza get in this year, that leaves a very full ballot next year. I'd vote:

Manny
Pudge
Bagwell
Raines
Schilling
Mussina
Clemens
Bonds
Edgar Martinez
Trammell (yeah, I know, he falls off after this year)
McGwire
11/23/2015 3:16 PM
bronxcheer
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NONE OF THE ABOVE

PETER H. ROSE
11/23/2015 3:28 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by bronxcheer on 11/23/2015 3:28:00 PM (view original):
NONE OF THE ABOVE

PETER H. ROSE
I've softened my stance on the gambling keeping him out issue, but he isn't on the ballot. Not much the BBWAA can do about his case and refusing to vote for new players doesn't help.

11/23/2015 3:36 PM
bronxcheer
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IT'S THE HALL OF FAME.

NOT THE HALL OF VERY GOOD TO NEAR GREAT PLAYERS I SAW PLAY
11/23/2015 4:08 PM
MikeT23
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ALL LATIN PLAYERS WERE ON THE JUICE!!!!    IF CLEMENS AND BONDS CAN'T GET IN, NONE OF THE JUICED UP LATINOS CAN!!!!
11/23/2015 4:21 PM
tecwrg
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RACIST!!!

#JuicedLatinoLivesMatter

11/23/2015 4:37 PM
dahsdebater
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Posted by bronxcheer on 11/23/2015 4:08:00 PM (view original):
IT'S THE HALL OF FAME.

NOT THE HALL OF VERY GOOD TO NEAR GREAT PLAYERS I SAW PLAY
No matter how you like to value various things in analyzing players, there are at bare minimum 4 players better than Rose that will be on the ballot by next year.  Absolute bare minimum.  So if they're just very good to near great, what is Rose?  Decent?
11/23/2015 5:03 PM
Got_Worms
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Posted by tecwrg on 11/23/2015 4:37:00 PM (view original):

RACIST!!!

#JuicedLatinoLivesMatter

New hash tag campaign???
11/23/2015 5:56 PM
Got_Worms
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Posted by bad_luck on 11/23/2015 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Manny and Pudge are probably it for me. Don't think I'd vote for Vlad.

Assuming that only Griffey and Piazza get in this year, that leaves a very full ballot next year. I'd vote:

Manny
Pudge
Bagwell
Raines
Schilling
Mussina
Clemens
Bonds
Edgar Martinez
Trammell (yeah, I know, he falls off after this year)
McGwire
Trammell & McGwire are both in their final year of eligibility.

Check Vlad's starts again. He's a HOFer!
11/23/2015 5:58 PM
dahsdebater
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On the all-time historical spectrum, he's certainly a HOF.  But compared to so many of his contemporaries, he doesn't really stand out.  You're not gonna put him in ahead of Manny, Bonds, Griffey, or Sosa.  I'd also have a hard time putting him ahead of Edmonds, Sheffield, or Abreu.  Larry Walker is hard to say because of the time he spent in Coors, but the raw numbers are definitely better.  In fact, it's hard to really distinguish Vlad statistically from guys like Lance Berkman and Moises Alou, who certainly don't feel like HOF guys.  There were just so many good steroid era outfielders, you can't just put them all in.  Or at least it feels silly to me.  I'd draw the line after Manny, Bonds, and Griffey.  And the more I think about it, the more I think my next guy in would be Edmonds.
11/23/2015 6:27 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by Got_Worms on 11/23/2015 5:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/23/2015 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Manny and Pudge are probably it for me. Don't think I'd vote for Vlad.

Assuming that only Griffey and Piazza get in this year, that leaves a very full ballot next year. I'd vote:

Manny
Pudge
Bagwell
Raines
Schilling
Mussina
Clemens
Bonds
Edgar Martinez
Trammell (yeah, I know, he falls off after this year)
McGwire
Trammell & McGwire are both in their final year of eligibility.

Check Vlad's starts again. He's a HOFer!
I don't think I'd put him in. He compares pretty closely to Reggie Jackson, minus about 2000 plate appearances. That's probably his best argument. But compare him to other guys who won't get in:

Name WAR OPS+ PA HR SB BA OBP SLG OPS
Larry Walker 72.6 141 8030 383 230 0.313 0.400 0.565 0.965
Vladimir Guerrero 59.3 140 9059 449 181 0.318 0.379 0.553 0.931

Name WAR OPS+ PA HR SB BA OBP SLG OPS
Gary Sheffield 60.3 140 10947 509 253 0.292 0.393 0.514 0.907
Vladimir Guerrero 59.3 140 9059 449 181 0.318 0.379 0.553 0.931

Name WAR OPS+ PA HR SB BA OBP SLG OPS
Bobby Abreu 59.9 128 10081 288 400 0.291 0.395 0.475 0.870
Vladimir Guerrero 59.3 140 9059 449 181 0.318 0.379 0.553 0.931

Name WAR OPS+ PA HR SB BA OBP SLG OPS
Lance Berkman 51.7 144 7814 366 86 0.293 0.406 0.537 0.943
Vladimir Guerrero 59.3 140 9059 449 181 0.318 0.379 0.553 0.931

11/23/2015 6:36 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by dahsdebater on 11/23/2015 6:27:00 PM (view original):
On the all-time historical spectrum, he's certainly a HOF.  But compared to so many of his contemporaries, he doesn't really stand out.  You're not gonna put him in ahead of Manny, Bonds, Griffey, or Sosa.  I'd also have a hard time putting him ahead of Edmonds, Sheffield, or Abreu.  Larry Walker is hard to say because of the time he spent in Coors, but the raw numbers are definitely better.  In fact, it's hard to really distinguish Vlad statistically from guys like Lance Berkman and Moises Alou, who certainly don't feel like HOF guys.  There were just so many good steroid era outfielders, you can't just put them all in.  Or at least it feels silly to me.  I'd draw the line after Manny, Bonds, and Griffey.  And the more I think about it, the more I think my next guy in would be Edmonds.
ah you beat me
11/23/2015 6:37 PM
bad_luck
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I don't know if I'd put Edmonds in. But I'm starting to think Walker belongs. WAR and OPS+ both adjust for park effects and his numbers in those stats are HOF level.
11/23/2015 6:42 PM
bad_luck
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The list of position players with 70+ WAR who are eligible but not in the Hall of Fame is very, very short:

Bagwell
Palmeiro
Grich
Trammell
Walker
Bonds
Whitaker
Dahlen


11/23/2015 7:00 PM (edited)
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