I've been trying to figure out what's more likely to sink my teams: turnovers, lack of threes, or iffy post defense. I've come to the conclusion that the former is the most likely fatal problem. Some of my teams are gonna turn it over a TON.

My plan was basically to build three title contenders around the best three Jokic seasons, then have two other teams that can hopefully stay around .500 and maybe sneak into the playoffs. But if it all goes wrong, I may end up like last season, with three OK-to-good teams and two bad ones.

A lot of people on this site are really bad at doing math.

Posted by robusk on 3/5/2024 10:08:00 PM (view original):
A lot of people on this site are really bad at doing math.

I was going to make a wise crack here, but then remember i messed up my own eval betting odds.

Also, not that it's a competition but Midge is crushing the evals. I need to up my game

*double checks graphing calculator* yep still only 33 usable seasons ****.

8. ty84moss

1. David Robinson

I'm glad I didn't trade with jcred for the 9th pick, Drob would have been the target. Great starting piece. Elite defense, paint scoring with good FT rate, solid on the boards, and plenty of minutes. The only question left is do you use the 93-94 season? Seems like owners are split on that decision based on past Savages.

2. Clint Capela

I like Capela as a late 2nd rounder. He's awesome at what he brings - high efg% paint scoring and boards. But passing on Magic? If I'm gonna take a hit on defense in the 2nd I think I'd rather take the super flexible guard who takes care of any ast% concerns.

3. Klay Thompson

Oh Klay. I just can't quit you in Savage. Those 5 really similar seasons of super clean elite high usg% 3pt shooting with good defense are just so pretty to look at. One of these drafts he's gonna fit like a glove on a team as a late 3rd/early 4th round pick and dominate. Could it be this team? You have a good start with the boards already. Klay really gives you a nice inside out punch with Drob/Capela's paint scoring. Unfortunately, the biggest problem with Klay imo is his fit with the other guard in the backcourt. Since you don't have one right now(Magic!) all the warm fuzzy inside-out offense feelings will quickly turn into dread as you realize you boxed yourself into an ast% heavy PG. One that will probably have poor defense(that Klay doesn't really cover well) and probably ruin any kind of rebound advantage that Capela might have gave you. One of these Savages I'd love to see Klay end up on a LeBron team at the 3/4 turn. That's best case scenario for him.

4. Nikola Vucevic

I thought I would hate this pick a lot more when I first glanced at your team. Seemed like 4/5 overkill when you still needed a 1 and a 3. But looking at the draft board, Vuce is clearly one of the best players available. And boy does he form an awesome trio with your first two picks. He's got the usg to backup Drob and the boards to back up Capela. Depending on the season, he also adds some 3s and much needed ast%.

5. Steve Nash

Whew...this pick. First off, you had to do it. You weren't going to find a better source of ast%. Nash gets a lot of hate and rightfully so as the player pool has evolved over time. But late 5th is kind of ridiculous for a player with 5 30+ min season of elite efg% and ast%. The offense is looking absolutely frightening right now. But the downside? Well I lived the downside in Savage 10 when I had my 2nd worst performance in this league with that backcourt. Now, keep in mind that was also Klay in the 2nd and Nash in the 3rd(WTF was I thinking!?!). However I think you might run into some of the same problems I did, namely backcourt defense and rebounding. If your backcourt defense doesn't total 100(which will be the case if Klay is covering Nash at the 1) you're gonna have a bad time(don't feel like linking to the South Park clip). You can possibly survive on the glass but it means hitting the boards as hard as you can at the 3. Not easy as the draft gets later and later.

6. Eric Bledsoe

Backcourt defense you say? Bledsoe was really solid value here and should give you some different options now in the backcourt. I'd like this pick a lot more if you had a 3 on the roster. Getting risky at this point in the draft to have 0 mins there.

7. Desmond Bane

Ballsy pick here. Still 0 mins at the 3 and grabbing a 2 season Klay backup instead. I'm guessing maybe you had planned to do this and felt good about getting your targets later(Billy boy!)? Bane is awesome in those 2 seasons but to play his full mins you are really taking a hit on ast%(if he plays the 1) or rebounds(if he plays the 3) in the mins he shares with Klay.

8. Amir Johnson

Finally! Time for a deep dive on Amir since I've never had the pleasure of using him in Savage. Well first thing I notice is that he is pretty much 100% in all of his seasons at SF. For some reason l always thought most of them were 97/98%. He's low usg in all of his seasons, which I thought was a must for you at the 3. And of course he brings what I already knew about him, good boards and high efg%. More minutes than I previously thought as well. Defense is mostly 50/60s outside of 2 lower minute seasons though. Overall team defense is on life support right now.


9. Alex English

I hate this pick. He can backup Klay for those other 3 seasons. That's about the only good thing I can say about him. This probably should have been a SF.

10. Bill Bridges

Billy Boy coming in late to save the day! Awful shooting and fouls a lil too much but he has some usable seasons with 80 d and really strong boards at the 3. That gets chopped down some from being only 97/98% pos eff but beggars can't be choosers in the 10th. Some serious minutes too you needed with only Amir at the 3. Great pick.

11. Jusuf Nurkic

I thought you had enough mins from Drob/Capela/Vuce to cover all of the 4/5 but I guess you might be short on some teams? That would be the only reason to draft Nurkic. Even if that were the case, I'm doing that in the 12th and grabbing another SF here. Most notably....SPOOOOOOON! Perfect pick for you here. That 00-01 season would have been the best SF mins on the team.

12. George Hill

Nice player with some flexible seasons. But he doesn't have the ast% to back up Nash.



I like the offense a lot. Great inside-out attack with good usg balance. The defense is going to be a problem though. I'm not sure you'll be able to overcome it. The boards may also be a weakness on certain teams/lineups. Going all in on the Amir/BillyB SF rotation is pretty damn risky as well.

Prediction: 15-20 finish

Posted by Midge on 3/7/2024 8:13:00 PM (view original):
dh555 has had a long and distinguished WIS Basketball career, doing such things as winning championships and running draft leagues.

more so the latter these days

sorry for the delay its been a busy work week.

10. berkelon - Shaquille O'Neal, Scottie Pippen, Jonas Valnciunas, Derrick Favors, Mike Conley, Kevon Looney, C.J. McCollum, Eddie Jones, Brook Lopez, JaMychal Green, Dewayne Dedmon

Shaq gives you a superstar center for 5 seasons. I’ll be honest I just Like Kareem more but clearly I’m in the minority there. His Oreb% is a plus, He’s a good defendor and at least never will need cover. His TOV is actually fantastic some seasons which is something I never realized about shaq. His ft% obviously is a bit of an issue but his low tov and high efg more than nullifies it. I really like Pippen other than one thing. His Usage is just a bit high for someone who isn't great from the line. Mostly has a tov above 13 and his ft% is low. On the flip side of that He’s an amazing defendor. Great D, Great stl% and even a good blk%. His assists give you flexibility at PG and his rebounding is plus at SG especially the SG season. One major thing required imo when building around shaq is lots of 3s. Well he at least has 2 seasons that provide that. Jonas has monster Drebounding and fantastic EFG. His defense is terrible though and he can’t be covered by 90% pf shaq but i see you kind of address that issue next. He has some 3s in a couple seasons but for the most part I think you’ve secured a -2 defense against your team. Derrick Favors can pretty much never be considered a bad pick. His 19 season is a work of art although you’ll probably have to play him at the 4 that season. He isn’t as clean of a SF fit as i thought but i know some of the better owners don’t mind playing lower usage seasons at 97/98%. I wish his usg was a little lower some season but I'm nitpicking a little. Conley has some deficiencies, but I think he was a great pick for your team. His rebounding is bad but you’ve gone strong with the boards your first 4 picks. His efg is meh at best but you’ve mostly got a team with high efg. He’s clean with his tov% especially for a pg. You also finally drafted a player with 5 seasons worth of 3s which i think was needed. I wish Looney had better defense but i think he’ll make a solid sf backup or even starter. It’s nice when you can fit him in at SG but i don’t think that will be happening. Love Mccollum other than his D. He doesn’t really turn it over, has pretty good efg at least for this round and takes a lot of 3s(wohoo) he’ll be a good backup for Pippen i think and decent enough behind Conley although you may be light on assists in those lineups. I don’t like Eddie Jones here. Thats back to back rebounding minuses now and I guess he’ll be pippen’s backup which makes me a little more confused about the Mccollum pick. His defense is good to be fair. Obviously has 3s and low tov. Feels like you could’ve found a better Backup for shaq but Lopez is fine I guess it just feels like you’ll be choosing between rebounding and efg because he doesn’t have many seasons with both. Green’s D is bad but he seems like a solid enough backup SF get for the 11th. Dedmon has a couple really solid rebounding and efg seasons and I think he was a solid find.

Overall I feel like this team is all over the place. I mostly like the players you chose but idk if i like the sum of the parts. I think you rebounding will be solid although you picked 3 negatives there and your efg should be good. This feels like a team in the 15-20 range although it wouldn’t surprise me if you went a little higher or lower depending on how you put your teams together.

11. jethroeg - James Harden, Bob McAdoo, Buck Williams, Marques Johnson, Anfernee Hardaway, Tracy McGrady, Deron Williams, Maurice Lucas, Charles Oakley, David Thompson, Spencer Haywood

Harden’s usage makes him one of the easiest players to build around. He’s got the assists to always play PG and rebounding to be a plus at that position. Mcadoo, ugh why do you do this Jethro. That was about 80 picks early. He's got one good season and i suppose a couple of ok ones. I actually really like Buck. He’s a very good rebounder, his efg is good, his defense is solid and can usually be adequete even covering SFs. Obviously he fouls more than most would like and he turns it over quite a bit. I think Marques was great pick. Hes got a couple of SG seasons that I think fit very well next to harden. You don’t need 3s there and hes a big posession battle plus. I wish his two best seasons were availble at SG but I think they rebound well enough that you’ll be fine with them at SF. Makes me sad that Penny only has 2 good seasons. Idk if this was intentional but if marques plays 3 seasons at SG then a harden and penny could be the backcourt for those other 2. I really don’t like moving harden away from pg but it should be fine fine. Mcgrady and Deron Williams ok so nevermind Marques won’t be playing SG and i guess Harden will only be SG. Love Mcgrady but idk what he does for your team you have plenty of usage already. I suppose he is a good backup for harden if he’s going to be your SG. Deron Williams has a good season or 2. Obviously Maurice lucas is a poison pill. Oakley is a fantastic rebounder but he loves to turn it over and foul. I think if i didn’t know who else you picked I might like david thompson at SG. Haywood would at least make Savoy proud i guess.

Some pick I like but nothing fits. You might have one good team if you put the pieces together but thats all that will save you from 24^th place.

12. tarheel1991 - Nikola Jokic, Moses Malone, Jason Kidd, Sidney Moncrief, Otto Porter, Daniel Gafford, Carlos Boozer, Dan Roundfield, James Johnson, T.J. McConnell, Jamal Murray

I think we’ve all been watching what jokic has been doing the last 3 years. It certainly translates very well to the sim as well. Immediate assist flexibility, Great drebounding, amazing efg and even some 3s. So the issues and why he’s picked 12th is the other 2 seasons although good aren’t quite at that level, his defense is horrendous and you usually don’t want your center with that high of a tov. Moses the king of orebounding is a nice add to your first pick. He can play PF which is important next to Jokic and his defense should be 70-80 all seasons. The bad news with Moses is thats even more turnovers. How the hell is he going to grab an offensive board when you’ve already lost the ball. I’ll be honest I wasn’t super familiar with Moses game before now but his high tov and 3 seasons of lower efg kinda worry me. So Kidd is another player thats always confused me in savage. What seasons are supposed to be used. I assume 08/09 and 09/10 with there solid D, efg low usage and 3s but otherwise idk 12-13? I kinda like his 07 season. Idk I'm rambling but the point is its all kind of a mess and in the end its going to be even more turnovers. So far you have 3 rebounding super stars and 3 turnover kings. Is this a net positive or negative in the possession battle? I absolutely love Moncrief from the time I used him. Good backcourt pairing with kidd as well. He's got the 4 100D seasons plus the 54 efg 70 d season. I guess otto porter is the SG backup or I guess he could be a low rebounding sf? Or I suppose maybe more moncrief at PG that way all 3 can play. Definitely confused about those 3 together but I can see how it fits possibly. It is good that you finally stop adding to the turnover problem. 3s to go with all your paint monsters is good as well. I had him last season and was maybe a bit disappointed but he didn’t turn it over and he finished with 57ts% so I guess thats what you need. I do like gafford a lot as your SF. Its always nice just having a player with 65+ efg especially when you can get that rebounding at SF as well. Other than the assists Boozer is solid look alike backup for Jokic although without the assists. With those numbers it does feel like a steal to get him this late. I don’t understand Roundfield. I guess guys with more than 20 usage and less than 50 efg rarely clear my filters. But i suppose if you play him at SF his rebounding is good, and defense is very good. Love James Johnson he’s good a lot of fun options that could potentially fit just about any need at SF or SG. I don’t really get the Mcconnell pick. Imo stocking up on assists just isn’t worth the turnover problem you are just adding to. One of the best parts of jokic is you don’t need guys like kidd or mcconnell at pg. Now Murray is someone you do want at PG with Jokic both irl and on here lol. Much lower tov, 3s, and probably 2 seasons that should be helpful.

Overall I liked a lot of these picks but there are so many turnovers that I’m just not sure you can make the top 10. Rebounding should be fantastic, defense is up and down, efg should be mostly solid although Roundfield and kidd hurts things there. I think you’ll finish 10-14.

I ate at Yao's restaurant once - it was managed by a Chinese fellow who I assume was related - at least 6'7"

Thanks steelers - good eval. You have the same conclusion as me about my most likely problem - boatloads of turnovers. A couple notes:

--It is tough to decide what Kidd seasons to use after 08-09 and 09-10. I considered 12-13 but in the end wanted to go with the bigger rebounding/assist seasons even with the bad efg. So I'm using 05-06, 06-07, and 98-99.

--Porter may play some minutes at SG but will mostly just be a low-rebounding SF. I was worried about usage if he backed up Moncrief; though maybe I was a little too cautious there. I just sort of backed myself into a corner of needing threes and low turnovers from a SF, and had to sacrifice rebounding to get that.

--Roundfield is going to be the primary Moses backup on 3-4 teams (Moses doesn't need more than 5-6 minutes behind him in most years) and play some SF on 2-3 teams. The main purpose of him was to keep solid post defense on the floor when Moses is out, without cratering usage.

5 of my top 7 efg seasons ever in savage. tov%s are some of my lowest. orebounding is some of my best but drebounding is meh. defense and assists are some of my worst ever. TS is based of 70% of fts. these teams are such a mixed bag I have no idea what will happen. I can put my teams in tomorrow unless im holding things up and then I can do them later today.

		min	def	fp48	usage	efg	TS%	oreb	dreb	ast	tov	FTA48	FT%	CREb	ast	tov	FTA48	FT%	CREb
14	team 1	19325	66.69	19.29	108.23	55.24	0.5903	40.62	89.71	56.10	12.35	7.74	77.47	130.33	56.10	12.35	7.74	77.47	130.33
14	team 2	19325	62.94	20.15	107.24	55.03	0.5831	42.24	98.81	57.24	13.15	8.87	73.50	141.05	57.24	13.15	8.87	73.50	141.05
14	team 3	19325	62.48	18.72	112.64	54.71	0.5746	35.91	94.94	60.40	12.30	7.33	72.97	130.85	60.40	12.30	7.33	72.97	130.85
14	team 4	19325	67.02	22.20	108.74	56.32	0.5894	39.40	96.67	55.14	12.83	7.92	70.32	136.07	55.14	12.83	7.92	70.32	136.07
14	team 5	19325	63.68	20.17	110.36	55.89	0.5851	39.48	98.36	54.55	12.64	7.42	71.19	137.84	54.55	12.64	7.42	71.19	137.84