Posted by llamanunts on 4/29/2015 9:29:00 AM (view original):
So it's basically just pumping the primary defender?  And it works the same across all defenses?  That's odd.

So... since there is no "doubler", what is the impact on the rest of the defense?  This is potentially more troubling, and I'm not going to word it well, but... if I double player A, and there's no "doubler", are players B, C, D and E all getting a normal matchup, with player A less likely to make a shot and more likely to miss/pass/TO?  Is there or isn't there a penalty for double-teaming?

Small sample size, confirmation bias, assorted disclaimers... it has seemed me to me that multiple doubleteams work better than they should.

ETA: I mean, why not just double team everyone all the time?

If 3 (or more)  people are going to be double teamed at the same time based on your settings, then no one is. double teamed.

Posted by beefburglar on 4/29/2015 10:43:00 AM (view original):

I was under the impression that if there are more than 2 DT'd players on the court at the same time, the effects are nullified. Is that right?

Yep  .. more than 2 .. 3 or more .. same thing. Quoting from the faq:


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That means to me that not only does the Distro go down for the guy(s) you double team .. if the double team is ON for a play (it is not always ON ... some times it does not work .. meaning normal settings), then the player also has less chance to make the shot .. it also means others (maybe everyone on the floor who is not double teamed) has a better chance of making a shot on that possession.

I don't know if I like this.  If it is a flat rate and there stud is guarded by my worst defender, who I thought I was "hiding" in my zone, it now seems like he went from an awful defender to below average.  Where as I thought I was doubling with four studs on the court and there would always be a great defender on who I wanted to double, no matter where they are in the lineup.

In a zone the players scores are averaged.  When you double it's just the average + x.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/29/2015 2:02:00 PM (view original):
In a zone the players scores are averaged.  When you double it's just the average + x.

You're right.  Good point.

Posted by llamanunts on 4/29/2015 10:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/29/2015 9:53:00 AM (view original):

Posted by llamanunts on 4/29/2015 9:29:00 AM (view original):
So it's basically just pumping the primary defender?  And it works the same across all defenses?  That's odd.

So... since there is no "doubler", what is the impact on the rest of the defense?  This is potentially more troubling, and I'm not going to word it well, but... if I double player A, and there's no "doubler", are players B, C, D and E all getting a normal matchup, with player A less likely to make a shot and more likely to miss/pass/TO?  Is there or isn't there a penalty for double-teaming?

Small sample size, confirmation bias, assorted disclaimers... it has seemed me to me that multiple doubleteams work better than they should.

ETA: I mean, why not just double team everyone all the time?

My assumption, based on assist numbers, is that if player A is double teamed he has a X% penalty on FG% and turnovers and is more likely to NOT shoot, and the other players have a smaller X% bonus on FG% and are more likely to shoot.

Okay, so double team pretty much everyone, unless there is one clearly dominant scorer and everyone else sucks.

well, if 1 player shoots worse, and 4 better, its not clear if you'd want to double team or not unless you knew how many shots those folks were taking and how much better/worse they would be shooting.

also TJ im not sure what you mean by "based on assist numbers" but aren't the assist numbers in HD box scores effectively window dressing? what are you doing with those assist numbers?

edit: random contribution to the discussion - i once asked seble about something related to double teams, i can't remember why, it was in another conversation. he verified that the other 4 players on the court did in fact shoot better to offset the double team. i think he said something like, "yeah especially if they've been open a while", or something that made me wonder, if you double more often, do the offenses get better at exploiting that? within a single game, i mean. i dont remember what it said but it had some sort of time connotation that i couldn't tell if it was just the way he said it or if actually he meant it was time based.