11 of 12 footballs deflated.... Topic

tecwrg
Posts: 18995 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 153 32 129
Prospect
I'm sure there are other Pats employees that BB is responsible for who are not covered by (2).

I don't have a copy of New England Patriots corporate org chart.

But you were talking specifically about equipment managers and ball boys, who would be covered by (2).

Do you have a point, or are you just arguing for ***** and giggles?

1/23/2015 9:26 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
My point is, and I don't like BB at all, that it's silly to hold him responsible for PSI in footballs.   If BB and Tommy got together, discussed it and told the equipment manager to deflate the balls, yep, BB should be castrated or whatever punishment you deem fit.    If Tommy told the EM to deflate the balls, BB is somewhat responsible because Tommy, who is under BB's direct supervision, made the call.   Maybe only remove one of BB's nuts.    If Tommy mentioned he likes softer balls and the EM took it upon himself to deflate the balls to help his hero Tommy, BB can't be held responsible for that.

The head coach is responsible, in varying degrees, for players/asst coaches.    He's not responsible for the temp of the hot tub or the condition of the lat pulldown machine.

Sean Payton was punished because A) he lied about having any knowledge of bounties and B) the players/asst coaches were plotting it out.    To the best of our knowledge, BB knew nothing of deflated balls.    And, even if he did, having a program that pays for knocking players out of a game is far more serious than a few PSI in a football.
1/23/2015 9:42 AM
burnsy483
Posts: 6848 (0)
Veteran
1 1 26
Prospect
Yea, BB is in charge of Brady, and Brady had the footballs deflated. Fines/suspensions for Kraft, BB, and Brady + loss of 1st round pick.

It's also on BB to create a culture where cheating in this way isn't acceptable, especially after Spygate and the reputation the Pats have in the first place. I'm confident that BB is looking for ways to get an advantage that toe the line of what's acceptable and legal, and that's known throughout the organization. So in this way, it's on him as well.
1/23/2015 9:47 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Did Brady have the footballs deflated?

If I recall correctly, the snowplow driver(out on work release) just drove out on the field and swiped a spot for the kicker.   He wasn't ordered or asked to do it, he just did it.   

I'm sure the QBs have some sort of relationship with the equipment guys.  I'm sure, at some point, Brady has mentioned that he prefers a ball with lower inflation.  He may have been there on many occassions when the EM let a pound of pressure, at his request, out of a football(there is some play in the PSI).   But none of this means he ordered the EM to deflate balls after the NFL inspected them.   

That said, it seems highly unlikely that some 20k a year guy would deflate balls without a specific request but it could have happened.    Not a fan of the Patriots, at all, but we can't assume guilt just because something happened.

And, if there's a NFL coach out there not testing the limits of the rules, he's not doing his job.
1/23/2015 10:05 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect

FWIW, there is the chance that the balls were underinflated when the NFL inspected them.   We're assuming they did their job properly.   That's a pretty big assumption if you ask me.    I can certainly see some NFL lackey saying "Lemme see the balls", squeezing them and approving them. 

1/23/2015 10:12 AM
tecwrg
Posts: 18995 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 153 32 129
Prospect
Belichick has had near complete control of football operations for the Patriots for a number of years.  Even though he may have had no direct knowledge of what happened to the balls, and even if he had no clue at all that anybody was tampering with the balls, just by the virtue of his position within the organization, he's accountable.  That's the way the business world works.

If you had a rogue driver who got a kick out of running over kittens with his truck while on the clock for you, isn't that eventually going to come back to you to address if somebody sees it happening and reports it?

1/23/2015 10:13 AM
burnsy483
Posts: 6848 (0)
Veteran
1 1 26
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/23/2015 10:05:00 AM (view original):
Did Brady have the footballs deflated?

If I recall correctly, the snowplow driver(out on work release) just drove out on the field and swiped a spot for the kicker.   He wasn't ordered or asked to do it, he just did it.   

I'm sure the QBs have some sort of relationship with the equipment guys.  I'm sure, at some point, Brady has mentioned that he prefers a ball with lower inflation.  He may have been there on many occassions when the EM let a pound of pressure, at his request, out of a football(there is some play in the PSI).   But none of this means he ordered the EM to deflate balls after the NFL inspected them.   

That said, it seems highly unlikely that some 20k a year guy would deflate balls without a specific request but it could have happened.    Not a fan of the Patriots, at all, but we can't assume guilt just because something happened.

And, if there's a NFL coach out there not testing the limits of the rules, he's not doing his job.
Yes, he did. To assume otherwise is naive at best. 
1/23/2015 10:23 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Yes, of course it would.   I would not get jail time or fined.    Maybe the authorities would pour over records and make my life difficult.  Maybe they would find something to fine me for after doing that.   But I wouldn't be fined for kitten crushing.  

You want BB's head on a stick and this does not warrant it.    Perhaps a rogue employee, one that he does NOT oversee and had no hand in hiring(which doesn't apply to my kitten crushing driver), did something against the rules.   Punish the organization not the guy who has no hand in ball management.
1/23/2015 10:24 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/23/2015 10:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/23/2015 10:05:00 AM (view original):
Did Brady have the footballs deflated?

If I recall correctly, the snowplow driver(out on work release) just drove out on the field and swiped a spot for the kicker.   He wasn't ordered or asked to do it, he just did it.   

I'm sure the QBs have some sort of relationship with the equipment guys.  I'm sure, at some point, Brady has mentioned that he prefers a ball with lower inflation.  He may have been there on many occassions when the EM let a pound of pressure, at his request, out of a football(there is some play in the PSI).   But none of this means he ordered the EM to deflate balls after the NFL inspected them.   

That said, it seems highly unlikely that some 20k a year guy would deflate balls without a specific request but it could have happened.    Not a fan of the Patriots, at all, but we can't assume guilt just because something happened.

And, if there's a NFL coach out there not testing the limits of the rules, he's not doing his job.
Yes, he did. To assume otherwise is naive at best. 
We live in a country where proof is required before conviction.   I'm failing to see any proof. 
1/23/2015 10:25 AM
burnsy483
Posts: 6848 (0)
Veteran
1 1 26
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/23/2015 10:12:00 AM (view original):

FWIW, there is the chance that the balls were underinflated when the NFL inspected them.   We're assuming they did their job properly.   That's a pretty big assumption if you ask me.    I can certainly see some NFL lackey saying "Lemme see the balls", squeezing them and approving them. 

Regardless of whether or not the refs do their job in checking the footballs pre-game, the Patriots still cheated. If I walk into a bank with a gun, and the security guard is looking the other way when I enter with the gun clear to see, I can't go "the security guard should have stopped me, don't charge with robbery."
1/23/2015 10:28 AM
burnsy483
Posts: 6848 (0)
Veteran
1 1 26
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/23/2015 10:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/23/2015 10:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/23/2015 10:05:00 AM (view original):
Did Brady have the footballs deflated?

If I recall correctly, the snowplow driver(out on work release) just drove out on the field and swiped a spot for the kicker.   He wasn't ordered or asked to do it, he just did it.   

I'm sure the QBs have some sort of relationship with the equipment guys.  I'm sure, at some point, Brady has mentioned that he prefers a ball with lower inflation.  He may have been there on many occassions when the EM let a pound of pressure, at his request, out of a football(there is some play in the PSI).   But none of this means he ordered the EM to deflate balls after the NFL inspected them.   

That said, it seems highly unlikely that some 20k a year guy would deflate balls without a specific request but it could have happened.    Not a fan of the Patriots, at all, but we can't assume guilt just because something happened.

And, if there's a NFL coach out there not testing the limits of the rules, he's not doing his job.
Yes, he did. To assume otherwise is naive at best. 
We live in a country where proof is required before conviction.   I'm failing to see any proof. 
Deflated footballs, and a motive. 
1/23/2015 10:29 AM
The Taint
Posts: 12595 (4)
Hall of Famer
996 3
Hall of Famer
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/23/2015 10:12:00 AM (view original):

FWIW, there is the chance that the balls were underinflated when the NFL inspected them.   We're assuming they did their job properly.   That's a pretty big assumption if you ask me.    I can certainly see some NFL lackey saying "Lemme see the balls", squeezing them and approving them. 

Sounds like they would have definitely went out of their way to make sure the balls were properly inflated before the game:


It’s been reported that #DeflateGate got rolling after Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson intercepted a ball thrown by Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and took it to the sideline for inspection by the equipment manager, who noticed that the ball was underinflated and passed the information up the flagpole, prompting the NFL to examine the New England footballs at halftime of the game.

According to Jay Glazer of FOX Sports, the NFL already had planned to check the footballs at halftime, based on concerns previously raised by the Colts. It’s unclear whether the Colts noticed that the balls were deflated during the November 16 regular-season game between the two teams or whether the Ravens (as Glazer suggested) shared the information with the franchise that used to be in Baltimore. Regardless, the pressure gauges were going to be inserted into the balls regardless of whether Jackson or any other Colts player had gotten his hands on one of the Patriots’ 12 footballs.

Meanwhile, former NFL official Gerry Austin said on ESPN (via Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post) that all 12 of the Colts’ footballs were properly inflated when checked at halftime and that the one out of 12 New England balls that was not two pounds under minimum was still underinflated.

Of course, it’s no surprise that the Indianapolis balls were within acceptable limits. If the Colts had tipped the league off to the issue before the game, it would have been stupid for the Colts to show up with underinflated balls.
1/23/2015 10:31 AM
burnsy483
Posts: 6848 (0)
Veteran
1 1 26
Prospect
If someone uses a corked bat in baseball, we suspend him, even when his excuse is "I didn't know."

If someone pitches with a scuffed baseball, we suspend him, even when his excuse is "I didn't know. Maybe an infielder did this."

If someone is caught using steroids, we suspend him, even when his excuse is "I didn't know. My trainer did it."
1/23/2015 10:31 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Evidence, that can't be linked to anyone specific, and a motive isn't proof.

If the Colts tipped the NFL to this before the game, what the **** was the NFL doing in the first half?   If there is a suspected issue, change the protocol.  Check the balls 15 minutes before the game. 

As for the NFL failing to do their job pre-game, do we know how many times they've found over/underinflated balls and got them up to specifications?   If it was even once, were those teams cheating?
1/23/2015 10:41 AM
burnsy483
Posts: 6848 (0)
Veteran
1 1 26
Prospect
If the NFL found a team trying to pass 11 of 12 footballs underinflated, they're trying to cheat.  In the same way someone who walks into a bank holding a gun is trying to rob it.

Are you cool with no more roid suspensions? It could easily be a rogue trainer trying to make his client better.
1/23/2015 10:49 AM
◂ Prev 1...4|5|6|7|8...22 Next ▸
11 of 12 footballs deflated.... Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.