Posted by tecwrg on 12/23/2014 3:19:00 PM (view original):
You tell me.  You're the "big picture" guy.  You know everything, according to you.

Weird.

I'm pretty sure I laid out my thoughts on the topic.

Then you weighed in, saying that I'm "unwilling to see the bigger picture." What is it you are referring to?

Posted by tecwrg on 12/23/2014 2:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/23/2014 2:14:00 PM (view original):
Shocker.  BL goes back to skin color being the biggest detriment to improving the situation that exists. 

Tunnel vision.  He's focused in on one thing, and is unable amd/or unwilling to see the bigger picture.

See?

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2014 11:51:00 AM (view original):
Evidence of racism in the justice system is compelling. Things like the study in St. Louis that compared the stop rates, search rates, and arrest rates for blacks and whites, things like drug national drug usage rates for blacks and whites vs drug arrest rates for blacks and whites, and things like sentencing patterns for the same crime that differ based on race.

If you look at that evidence and believe it, it's hard to think that the entire justice system isn't racist. And if the entire justice system is racist, it seems likely that the same racism exists in things like education, employment, and housing.

And if essentially all of American society is racist, arguing that black people just need to work harder and be better parents is stupid and pointless. Yes, everyone would be better off if everyone worked harder and was a better parent, but blacks aren't inherently lazier than whites. Blacks aren't inherently worse parents than whites. The poverty and the issues with single parent households are just symptoms of a bigger problem.

Let's recap your "big picture".

The justice system is racist.

The education system is racist.

The employment system is racist.

The housing system is racist.

All of American society is racist.

Did I miss anything?

Oh . . . yeah.  We're missing a solution in your "big picture".  Just a lot of finger pointing and blaming whitey.

Are you Rev. Al Sharpton?

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2014 2:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/23/2014 1:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2014 11:51:00 AM (view original):
Evidence of racism in the justice system is compelling. Things like the study in St. Louis that compared the stop rates, search rates, and arrest rates for blacks and whites, things like drug national drug usage rates for blacks and whites vs drug arrest rates for blacks and whites, and things like sentencing patterns for the same crime that differ based on race.

If you look at that evidence and believe it, it's hard to think that the entire justice system isn't racist. And if the entire justice system is racist, it seems likely that the same racism exists in things like education, employment, and housing.

And if essentially all of American society is racist, arguing that black people just need to work harder and be better parents is stupid and pointless. Yes, everyone would be better off if everyone worked harder and was a better parent, but blacks aren't inherently lazier than whites. Blacks aren't inherently worse parents than whites. The poverty and the issues with single parent households are just symptoms of a bigger problem.

The poverty and issues with single parent households are a BIG PART of the problem. By saying its a symptom of the problem you are placing blame rather than holding one accountable. WTF does the government have to do with a woman making the choice to have sex that happens to get pregnant? And how is the 'bigger problem' preventing blacks from getting jobs? I see black people working all over the city in all sorts of jobs. All they need to do is apply, dress nice, and interview well.

You see black people working different kinds of jobs? Well ****, it's decided. There is no racism in America.

Racism is not holding black people down... Black people are holding black people down. Those that are finding jobs, getting educations, advancing their well-being are the ones that have figured that out. The same could be said for any race. Its not just a black thing like you'd like to make it out to be.

Did we put Japanese in internment camps long after slavery ended?    How has the Asian population largely managed to stay out of poverty?   Surely white America hated the yellow man more than the black man in 1942.

FWIW, I'm quite sure racism exists.   And I'm quite sure it affects more than the black population(Native Americans haven't done all that well either).   But some groups overcome it and some don't.   What's the common denominator of those that fail?

This has circled back to parenting, leadership, education, etc, etc. 

If Joe Blackman is telling his children "Don't trust whitey, especially ones with badges", of course Junior is going to run into more resistance than John Whiteman's son who has been told everyone is equal and you are what you make of yourself. 

So how do you fix that?    I'll tell you.   Mandatory military service.   Let Drill Sargeant Bob tell all of them they're maggots but they'll find they have the same opportunity as the maggot standing next to them.    And Mommy/Daddy won't be leading them down the same mistake-laden path they went down.

Posted by tecwrg on 12/23/2014 3:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2014 11:51:00 AM (view original):
Evidence of racism in the justice system is compelling. Things like the study in St. Louis that compared the stop rates, search rates, and arrest rates for blacks and whites, things like drug national drug usage rates for blacks and whites vs drug arrest rates for blacks and whites, and things like sentencing patterns for the same crime that differ based on race.

If you look at that evidence and believe it, it's hard to think that the entire justice system isn't racist. And if the entire justice system is racist, it seems likely that the same racism exists in things like education, employment, and housing.

And if essentially all of American society is racist, arguing that black people just need to work harder and be better parents is stupid and pointless. Yes, everyone would be better off if everyone worked harder and was a better parent, but blacks aren't inherently lazier than whites. Blacks aren't inherently worse parents than whites. The poverty and the issues with single parent households are just symptoms of a bigger problem.

Let's recap your "big picture".

The justice system is racist.

The education system is racist.

The employment system is racist.

The housing system is racist.

All of American society is racist.

Did I miss anything?

Oh . . . yeah.  We're missing a solution in your "big picture".  Just a lot of finger pointing and blaming whitey.

Are you Rev. Al Sharpton?

My big picture is that we have systematic racism in America. Telling people to just work hard and dress nice doesn't solve the root cause of the problem. I don't know how to solve the problem.

I'll ask again. What big picture do you think I'm missing?

I'm sure "**** what you say" is the appropriate response.   Because I'm sure it's just another version of "White men are racist and keep the black man down."    You can only repeat that so many times. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/23/2014 4:44:00 PM (view original):
I'm sure "**** what you say" is the appropriate response.   Because I'm sure it's just another version of "White men are racist and keep the black man down."    You can only repeat that so many times. 

Who are you talking to?

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2014 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/23/2014 3:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2014 11:51:00 AM (view original):
Evidence of racism in the justice system is compelling. Things like the study in St. Louis that compared the stop rates, search rates, and arrest rates for blacks and whites, things like drug national drug usage rates for blacks and whites vs drug arrest rates for blacks and whites, and things like sentencing patterns for the same crime that differ based on race.

If you look at that evidence and believe it, it's hard to think that the entire justice system isn't racist. And if the entire justice system is racist, it seems likely that the same racism exists in things like education, employment, and housing.

And if essentially all of American society is racist, arguing that black people just need to work harder and be better parents is stupid and pointless. Yes, everyone would be better off if everyone worked harder and was a better parent, but blacks aren't inherently lazier than whites. Blacks aren't inherently worse parents than whites. The poverty and the issues with single parent households are just symptoms of a bigger problem.

Let's recap your "big picture".

The justice system is racist.

The education system is racist.

The employment system is racist.

The housing system is racist.

All of American society is racist.

Did I miss anything?

Oh . . . yeah.  We're missing a solution in your "big picture".  Just a lot of finger pointing and blaming whitey.

Are you Rev. Al Sharpton?

My big picture is that we have systematic racism in America. Telling people to just work hard and dress nice doesn't solve the root cause of the problem. I don't know how to solve the problem.

I'll ask again. What big picture do you think I'm missing?

You're missing the part where people have to take ownership of the things that they can control in their lives, and not just give up hope.

You seem to be stuck in the pit of despair that blacks are victims of systemic racism, and there's not a ******* thing they can do about it.  You're ignoring the fact that quite a few people have been able to crawl out of poverty and oppression and become successful in all walks of life.  Sometimes it happens in a single generation, sometimes it's a gradual and incremental betterment of the lives of their families over multiple generations.  But those who attempt to take control of what they can, through good parenting, through education, through an inner drive to overcome adversity, are often (granted not always) able to do that.  Unfortunately, the number of people who are willing to do that is not nearly as high as it should be.  

Your mindset of "systemic racism, we're doomed to continue to be oppressed " does little more than enable people to give up and accept "this is the way it is because it's the way it is".

In other words, you're part of the problem.

Posted by tecwrg on 12/23/2014 5:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2014 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 12/23/2014 3:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2014 11:51:00 AM (view original):
Evidence of racism in the justice system is compelling. Things like the study in St. Louis that compared the stop rates, search rates, and arrest rates for blacks and whites, things like drug national drug usage rates for blacks and whites vs drug arrest rates for blacks and whites, and things like sentencing patterns for the same crime that differ based on race.

If you look at that evidence and believe it, it's hard to think that the entire justice system isn't racist. And if the entire justice system is racist, it seems likely that the same racism exists in things like education, employment, and housing.

And if essentially all of American society is racist, arguing that black people just need to work harder and be better parents is stupid and pointless. Yes, everyone would be better off if everyone worked harder and was a better parent, but blacks aren't inherently lazier than whites. Blacks aren't inherently worse parents than whites. The poverty and the issues with single parent households are just symptoms of a bigger problem.

Let's recap your "big picture".

The justice system is racist.

The education system is racist.

The employment system is racist.

The housing system is racist.

All of American society is racist.

Did I miss anything?

Oh . . . yeah.  We're missing a solution in your "big picture".  Just a lot of finger pointing and blaming whitey.

Are you Rev. Al Sharpton?

My big picture is that we have systematic racism in America. Telling people to just work hard and dress nice doesn't solve the root cause of the problem. I don't know how to solve the problem.

I'll ask again. What big picture do you think I'm missing?

You're missing the part where people have to take ownership of the things that they can control in their lives, and not just give up hope.

You seem to be stuck in the pit of despair that blacks are victims of systemic racism, and there's not a ******* thing they can do about it.  You're ignoring the fact that quite a few people have been able to crawl out of poverty and oppression and become successful in all walks of life.  Sometimes it happens in a single generation, sometimes it's a gradual and incremental betterment of the lives of their families over multiple generations.  But those who attempt to take control of what they can, through good parenting, through education, through an inner drive to overcome adversity, are often (granted not always) able to do that.  Unfortunately, the number of people who are willing to do that is not nearly as high as it should be.  

Your mindset of "systemic racism, we're doomed to continue to be oppressed " does little more than enable people to give up and accept "this is the way it is because it's the way it is".

In other words, you're part of the problem.

I don't think I ever said, "black people should just give up hope and not try to better themselves." Everyone--black, white, & green--should do what they can to have a good life. Obviously.

But that doesn't mean we should ignore systematic racism.

In the same way that you think it's unacceptable for blacks to "give up and accept this is the way it is." I think it's unacceptable for society to give up and accept that blacks are treated differently by cops, by judges, by schools, by employers, by landlords, etc., etc., etc..

Who's saying that society should "give up and accept that"?

You and moy are saying that it doesn't exist.

When the hell did I ever say that?

And don't lump me in with a regard like moy.