Posted by MikeT23 on 12/23/2014 11:12:00 AM (view original):
So here are the solutions:
1.  Stop "at risk" people from having children
2.  Take children away from "at risk" families
3.  Mandatory military service

1 and 2 will never happen.   Al Sharpton is already screaming racism.   But here's what happens with 2 years mandatory military service.   1.  Education.  If you didn't graduate HS, you can get a GED.   If you did graduate HS and hope to further your education, you can take accredited college courses.   If you did graduate HS and have no desire to further your education, you can be taught a trade.    2.  Discipline and respect.  You will do what you're told.  And, with any luck, that lesson will help you be a better citizen on the outside.   3.  Equality.  You will find that it does exist amongst your peers regardless of skin color.   4.  A sense of purpose.  You are doing something for your country.  Something bigger than you and your needs.   5.  Removal from the enviroment that keeps you hopeless.  You've been removed from the mistakes of your parents. 

Finally, the people most likely to get into/cause trouble, are removed from the equation.   18-20 y/o men just don't give a ****.  Take them off the street and crime goes down.

Are you saying mandatory military service for everyone, in general? 

I think I really like the idea of mandatory military service for anyone who doesn't graduate high school. If you don't want to join the military, finish high school. Hopefully being forced to "learn" will even convince some of attending college after too. If you "drop out," you're shipped off.  I'm trying to think of a reason why I wouldn't want this. I can't. 

And then those mothers that don't want to see their babies sent to war will force their kids to get an education.

This might be one of the brightest things you've ever said.

Yes, everyone.  Assuming physical capability.

My main objective is to get people out of the enviroment that you describe.    To teach them discipline and respect for authority.  To make sure they are educated enough to make good decisions.   To see that there is a way to improve one's situation.  To know that you can do better.

Giving people an "out" would be no different than Dubya's military vacation. 

I've said this before.   Just not as long-winded. 

I'm not comfortable with forced military service. I'm a ***** - I've said before that if there were a draft, I'd be enjoying life as a canuck. 

But the problems that you see in these communities are generally involving the uneducated. The kids who dropped out of school at 16 to deal drugs, join gangs, etc. But if you force these kids to go to school, hook them up with career/college counselors, I think things start getting better. And you don't like school? Off to the military.

Not many people are comfortable with forced military service.

But you have to get young people out of the at-risk enviroment.   You can graduate HS and still be there.   Every punk on the street didn't drop out in 10th grade.   And, obviously, the rich will make sure their kids graduate HS to avoid military service.   Tutors, cheating, paying off teachers, whatever it takes that money can buy.   What you'd see is "black from poor communities" being forced to serve two years.    That will not create an enviroment of equality.

Like burnsy, I wouldn't have been happy about it.   But, if I was told at 6, "Son, you're going to serve in the military when you graduate HS or before if you drop out", I think I'd have been accustomed to the idea by the time I reached 18.  

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/23/2014 11:34:00 AM (view original):
Not many people are comfortable with forced military service.

But you have to get young people out of the at-risk enviroment.   You can graduate HS and still be there.   Every punk on the street didn't drop out in 10th grade.   And, obviously, the rich will make sure their kids graduate HS to avoid military service.   Tutors, cheating, paying off teachers, whatever it takes that money can buy.   What you'd see is "black from poor communities" being forced to serve two years.    That will not create an enviroment of equality.

I think we need to invest more in the high-risk schools than we are now. Tutors, etc. It's a little more of a socially liberal mindset than you guys are probably comfortable with (I'm white and paying for tutors, why does dumb black kid get it for free). But kids who want to graduate school and avoid the military should be able to, and we should give them the tools to do that.

You're trying to change the enviroment.   I think we have to remove people from the enviroment.    Even if you clean up the schools, the streets are still there.  The "bad" parents are still there.    Graduating HS doesn't get you a decent job.    The pull of "sell drugs, make stacks" will still be an option over "stack shelves, make minimum wage". 

Evidence of racism in the justice system is compelling. Things like the study in St. Louis that compared the stop rates, search rates, and arrest rates for blacks and whites, things like drug national drug usage rates for blacks and whites vs drug arrest rates for blacks and whites, and things like sentencing patterns for the same crime that differ based on race.

If you look at that evidence and believe it, it's hard to think that the entire justice system isn't racist. And if the entire justice system is racist, it seems likely that the same racism exists in things like education, employment, and housing.

And if essentially all of American society is racist, arguing that black people just need to work harder and be better parents is stupid and pointless. Yes, everyone would be better off if everyone worked harder and was a better parent, but blacks aren't inherently lazier than whites. Blacks aren't inherently worse parents than whites. The poverty and the issues with single parent households are just symptoms of a bigger problem.

Isn't that just dandruff?  Or is there another, more serious, condition associated with it?

Posted by bad_luck on 12/23/2014 11:51:00 AM (view original):
Evidence of racism in the justice system is compelling. Things like the study in St. Louis that compared the stop rates, search rates, and arrest rates for blacks and whites, things like drug national drug usage rates for blacks and whites vs drug arrest rates for blacks and whites, and things like sentencing patterns for the same crime that differ based on race.

If you look at that evidence and believe it, it's hard to think that the entire justice system isn't racist. And if the entire justice system is racist, it seems likely that the same racism exists in things like education, employment, and housing.

And if essentially all of American society is racist, arguing that black people just need to work harder and be better parents is stupid and pointless. Yes, everyone would be better off if everyone worked harder and was a better parent, but blacks aren't inherently lazier than whites. Blacks aren't inherently worse parents than whites. The poverty and the issues with single parent households are just symptoms of a bigger problem.

The poverty and issues with single parent households are a BIG PART of the problem. By saying its a symptom of the problem you are placing blame rather than holding one accountable. WTF does the government have to do with a woman making the choice to have sex that happens to get pregnant? And how is the 'bigger problem' preventing blacks from getting jobs? I see black people working all over the city in all sorts of jobs. All they need to do is apply, dress nice, and interview well.