Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:47:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:44:00 AM (view original):
I am fairly certain you can parse that post of mine however you like and unless calling someone a martyr is an attack I don't see it. You might get me on language, but I imagine I'd get off with a warning. Go ahead though - the only reason I'm still up watching is hoping you mess up and go over the line so I can blow you in. I'm not ashamed to say it.

I tried, many times to help you. I am not kind enough to be told that my help is worthless and that I am trying to provide misinformation as the only way I can win games against new players as you continue to insinuate vets are doing and let it slide. So, do carry on, and lets see where the chips wind up, ok?

You should be ashamed to say it. You must truly have a trite and meaningless life. 

I really don't care what you do. You can report me right now if you want. Go for it. I'm probably 95% leaving when the meter runs out anyway.

nothing to report - yet. But I have faith. You've never let me down before...

I said hell earlier. Report that. 

I'm so glad I don't have as low a value on my time as to sit around looking for something about which to gripe and complain to site admin. 

yeah, you are too busy single-handedly saving multi-million dollar aircraft...

etta, i really feel like you try to nitpick answers to say why they aren't good enough, instead of genuinely trying to make the most out of them. you are in a thread where many very helpful coaches (as deemed by consumers of their information) have offered you information, the kind that most coaches in this game would really benefit from and probably be pretty damn happy to get. there is so much info in this thread, its actually kind of a shame its not being spent answering the questions of those who really have legitimate questions, which is basically everybody. i have tons of legitimate questions - this is a sufficiently complex game, nobody knows everything nor should they, just like no bridge player or starcraft player or any major game in the world player can answer every question. there are many unknowns, that is what makes a sufficiently complex game sufficiently complex :)

seriously, if you try to get as much as you can out of these answers, like, the 2HV + scholarship being enough to get ANY player in your division to consider you (assuming they aren't considering anyone else - that passes their considering point threshold, though), instead of nitpicking like, well, maybe its 1.5HV and you can't tell me even though its a near-meaningless 150 dollar difference... i think you'd be about a hundred times better off.

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:36:00 AM (view original):
Jeff, you are one of the smartest dudes I know, so you must be drunk. If he tells you what you are asking and you provide the answers he "seeks" he won't be able to be the martyr and tell everyone how much the game sucks and we are all ******** for not telling him exactly how to play it, except that if we try to do that he gets pissy because we treat him like a child. Would that I could, he'd get to go to his room for like ever.

Is it not telling that this is his first day with posting rights again and already everyone is an elitest ***** who only wants to belittle him and no one answers his questions, except for the literally dozens of posts by you and many others answering the damn question?

Maybe if we actually do treat him like he thinks he's being treated he really will just go the eff away. Or at least maybe he'll offer to meet one of us in an airport to presumably kick our *** and get banned from posting some more, maybe for good this time...

You should be banned for all the foul language in this post. But if I report you, I get banned because...well, I don't know why, but that's how this has worked so far. I get blamed for being attacked.

What a freaking hypocrite. 

foul language? what are we, 10 years old? give me a break. i didn't even realize he swore. lets get back to those players who have such confusing behavior, although it really seems like straight textbook to me. this arguing about who is doing what is a waste of time. even bigger waste of time than the rest of this.

So the rules only apply when you notice them or when you think they're important? 

complaining about foul language on a forum is the most juvenile thing you can do on the internet, in my opinion. this game has a built in language filter that is on by default - for children, mostly, lol. if you are like, some ultra religious super christian virgin dude, then uh, go back to praying. the internet is not the place for you. if not... seriously. i'd tell you to man up but you might threaten to make me pay to fly to one of several airports so that maybe you'd show up to try to kick my ***. so think of a euphamism for "man up" that is not so offensive to you, and pretend i said THAT.

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:46:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:28:00 AM (view original):
"just because you have prestige and division playing into STRATEGY, that does not suggest the recruiting mechanism itself is at its core, a simple auction style recruiting system. a system system can lead to complex results, complex strategies."

Actually it means exactly that. Auctions are ridiculously simple. If you're willing to commit the most resources (usually currency, but not always), you win. That's not the HD system, as you freely admit, but for some reason insist on calling it an auction anyway. 

Adding the word style to something doesn't automatically change an incorrect statement into a correct statement.

lol... yes, auction style is different than auction. its auction style because its effort not money and there is a straight forward mapping from money to effort (this is well documented although there are only ranges on the conversions of high level attributes and prestige, but its more than sufficient to win, say, 20 championships with. i didn't have a damn clue what the conversions were, actually i did but i was totally wrong, when i won those, so you should be able to make due...)

and yes, auctions are ridiculously simple. so is the HD mechanism at its core. all actions are worth some amount of effort. for example, if a phone call = 10 points (its 10 dollars) a home visit is 700 points, and so on. now that home visit might cost you 300 dollars if you are close or 1500 if its international, but its still 1 home visit. now, add up your effort, multiply by some prestige factor, add up his effort, multiply by some prestige factor, and you basically have 2 numbers and the bigger number wins. it is that simple. i guess to me, thats simple, i recognize i can't explain it in 5 words so its not SUPER simple but come on, thats not that bad. oh, and in d2 and d3, you can mostly ignore that prestige factor, which i think makes it really simple?

You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole with this. Just admit you chose a bad example and move on. 

"Some prestige factor?" You don't have prestige factors in determining the winners of auctions, let alone unknown ones. 

Your little brag about winning championships is hilarious. More haughtiness and better-than-you stuff. Let me know when your championships can buy a cup of coffee. They're worthless. 

See you saying you can ignore the prestige factor absolutely flies in the face of what othre people have said. IIRC, one person said it doubles the effort required...that's certainly not negligible. And now we're back to misinformation and lacking clarity.

hmm, 20 championships is about... well, i can't remember how many reward points is it, but it sure as hell buys a lot more than a cup of coffee. easily hundreds of dollars, converted to amazon cards. not that it has anything to do with anything... im just making a point, a very simple and obvious one to everyone else, which is the kind of **** that you nitpick hasn't held anyone else back, so why can't you deal with that same level of ambiguity? or frankly, a lesser level of ambiguity, as you have high level coaches spoon feeding you ranges.

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:57:00 AM (view original):
etta, i really feel like you try to nitpick answers to say why they aren't good enough, instead of genuinely trying to make the most out of them. you are in a thread where many very helpful coaches (as deemed by consumers of their information) have offered you information, the kind that most coaches in this game would really benefit from and probably be pretty damn happy to get. there is so much info in this thread, its actually kind of a shame its not being spent answering the questions of those who really have legitimate questions, which is basically everybody. i have tons of legitimate questions - this is a sufficiently complex game, nobody knows everything nor should they, just like no bridge player or starcraft player or any major game in the world player can answer every question. there are many unknowns, that is what makes a sufficiently complex game sufficiently complex :)

seriously, if you try to get as much as you can out of these answers, like, the 2HV + scholarship being enough to get ANY player in your division to consider you (assuming they aren't considering anyone else - that passes their considering point threshold, though), instead of nitpicking like, well, maybe its 1.5HV and you can't tell me even though its a near-meaningless 150 dollar difference... i think you'd be about a hundred times better off.

I don't think it matters because the players in my division aren't good enough to do anything in the year I have left anyway.

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 3:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:36:00 AM (view original):
Jeff, you are one of the smartest dudes I know, so you must be drunk. If he tells you what you are asking and you provide the answers he "seeks" he won't be able to be the martyr and tell everyone how much the game sucks and we are all ******** for not telling him exactly how to play it, except that if we try to do that he gets pissy because we treat him like a child. Would that I could, he'd get to go to his room for like ever.

Is it not telling that this is his first day with posting rights again and already everyone is an elitest ***** who only wants to belittle him and no one answers his questions, except for the literally dozens of posts by you and many others answering the damn question?

Maybe if we actually do treat him like he thinks he's being treated he really will just go the eff away. Or at least maybe he'll offer to meet one of us in an airport to presumably kick our *** and get banned from posting some more, maybe for good this time...

You should be banned for all the foul language in this post. But if I report you, I get banned because...well, I don't know why, but that's how this has worked so far. I get blamed for being attacked.

What a freaking hypocrite. 

foul language? what are we, 10 years old? give me a break. i didn't even realize he swore. lets get back to those players who have such confusing behavior, although it really seems like straight textbook to me. this arguing about who is doing what is a waste of time. even bigger waste of time than the rest of this.

So the rules only apply when you notice them or when you think they're important? 

complaining about foul language on a forum is the most juvenile thing you can do on the internet, in my opinion. this game has a built in language filter that is on by default - for children, mostly, lol. if you are like, some ultra religious super christian virgin dude, then uh, go back to praying. the internet is not the place for you. if not... seriously. i'd tell you to man up but you might threaten to make me pay to fly to one of several airports so that maybe you'd show up to try to kick my ***. so think of a euphamism for "man up" that is not so offensive to you, and pretend i said THAT.

You've got to be kidding me. The guy says he's trying to get me banned, and you don't get the point of pointing out that he's breaking board rules in so doing? 

Maybe you're not as smart as you play yourself up to be.

can we get back to the oh so complicated question of what it is you did that didn't line up with reality? seriously, this sounds like extremely basic stuff, that myself or a hundred other coaches could answer. not everyone can think of all the eventualities and disclaimers nor even have the desire to do so, so not everyone will tell you 10 SVs isn't enough at your prestige, but i did... is it any more complicated that that? from you showing up later, it sounds like, no. my guess is all those other coaches could have looked at your situation and said oh... you know what, you probably need more, you are at some ****** program (which is not an insult, YOU didn't make it that way). and then you could have sent more SVs and oh-my-god he would have considered you and it would turn out not everyone was intentionally selling you lies about the mechanism of pulldowns. im curious what other brain teasers you have in store for us? can we move on to those already? i promise not to belittle your examples if you ACTUALLY SHARE THEM. no promises if you continue not to, however ;)

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 3:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:46:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:28:00 AM (view original):
"just because you have prestige and division playing into STRATEGY, that does not suggest the recruiting mechanism itself is at its core, a simple auction style recruiting system. a system system can lead to complex results, complex strategies."

Actually it means exactly that. Auctions are ridiculously simple. If you're willing to commit the most resources (usually currency, but not always), you win. That's not the HD system, as you freely admit, but for some reason insist on calling it an auction anyway. 

Adding the word style to something doesn't automatically change an incorrect statement into a correct statement.

lol... yes, auction style is different than auction. its auction style because its effort not money and there is a straight forward mapping from money to effort (this is well documented although there are only ranges on the conversions of high level attributes and prestige, but its more than sufficient to win, say, 20 championships with. i didn't have a damn clue what the conversions were, actually i did but i was totally wrong, when i won those, so you should be able to make due...)

and yes, auctions are ridiculously simple. so is the HD mechanism at its core. all actions are worth some amount of effort. for example, if a phone call = 10 points (its 10 dollars) a home visit is 700 points, and so on. now that home visit might cost you 300 dollars if you are close or 1500 if its international, but its still 1 home visit. now, add up your effort, multiply by some prestige factor, add up his effort, multiply by some prestige factor, and you basically have 2 numbers and the bigger number wins. it is that simple. i guess to me, thats simple, i recognize i can't explain it in 5 words so its not SUPER simple but come on, thats not that bad. oh, and in d2 and d3, you can mostly ignore that prestige factor, which i think makes it really simple?

You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole with this. Just admit you chose a bad example and move on. 

"Some prestige factor?" You don't have prestige factors in determining the winners of auctions, let alone unknown ones. 

Your little brag about winning championships is hilarious. More haughtiness and better-than-you stuff. Let me know when your championships can buy a cup of coffee. They're worthless. 

See you saying you can ignore the prestige factor absolutely flies in the face of what othre people have said. IIRC, one person said it doubles the effort required...that's certainly not negligible. And now we're back to misinformation and lacking clarity.

hmm, 20 championships is about... well, i can't remember how many reward points is it, but it sure as hell buys a lot more than a cup of coffee. easily hundreds of dollars, converted to amazon cards. not that it has anything to do with anything... im just making a point, a very simple and obvious one to everyone else, which is the kind of **** that you nitpick hasn't held anyone else back, so why can't you deal with that same level of ambiguity? or frankly, a lesser level of ambiguity, as you have high level coaches spoon feeding you ranges.

How many dollars per hour of labor does that add up for those 20 championships? Or should I say, cents per hour?

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 3:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:57:00 AM (view original):
etta, i really feel like you try to nitpick answers to say why they aren't good enough, instead of genuinely trying to make the most out of them. you are in a thread where many very helpful coaches (as deemed by consumers of their information) have offered you information, the kind that most coaches in this game would really benefit from and probably be pretty damn happy to get. there is so much info in this thread, its actually kind of a shame its not being spent answering the questions of those who really have legitimate questions, which is basically everybody. i have tons of legitimate questions - this is a sufficiently complex game, nobody knows everything nor should they, just like no bridge player or starcraft player or any major game in the world player can answer every question. there are many unknowns, that is what makes a sufficiently complex game sufficiently complex :)

seriously, if you try to get as much as you can out of these answers, like, the 2HV + scholarship being enough to get ANY player in your division to consider you (assuming they aren't considering anyone else - that passes their considering point threshold, though), instead of nitpicking like, well, maybe its 1.5HV and you can't tell me even though its a near-meaningless 150 dollar difference... i think you'd be about a hundred times better off.

I don't think it matters because the players in my division aren't good enough to do anything in the year I have left anyway.

so, you admit i shared sufficient detail to capture all that matters to your situation? i think i have given you all you can reasonably ask for then, on this subject, yes?

I can't get you banned, only you can...

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:47:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:44:00 AM (view original):
I am fairly certain you can parse that post of mine however you like and unless calling someone a martyr is an attack I don't see it. You might get me on language, but I imagine I'd get off with a warning. Go ahead though - the only reason I'm still up watching is hoping you mess up and go over the line so I can blow you in. I'm not ashamed to say it.

I tried, many times to help you. I am not kind enough to be told that my help is worthless and that I am trying to provide misinformation as the only way I can win games against new players as you continue to insinuate vets are doing and let it slide. So, do carry on, and lets see where the chips wind up, ok?

You should be ashamed to say it. You must truly have a trite and meaningless life. 

I really don't care what you do. You can report me right now if you want. Go for it. I'm probably 95% leaving when the meter runs out anyway.

nothing to report - yet. But I have faith. You've never let me down before...

I said hell earlier. Report that. 

I'm so glad I don't have as low a value on my time as to sit around looking for something about which to gripe and complain to site admin. 

yeah, you are too busy single-handedly saving multi-million dollar aircraft...

I don't do that anymore. But I have.

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 3:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 3:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:46:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:28:00 AM (view original):
"just because you have prestige and division playing into STRATEGY, that does not suggest the recruiting mechanism itself is at its core, a simple auction style recruiting system. a system system can lead to complex results, complex strategies."

Actually it means exactly that. Auctions are ridiculously simple. If you're willing to commit the most resources (usually currency, but not always), you win. That's not the HD system, as you freely admit, but for some reason insist on calling it an auction anyway. 

Adding the word style to something doesn't automatically change an incorrect statement into a correct statement.

lol... yes, auction style is different than auction. its auction style because its effort not money and there is a straight forward mapping from money to effort (this is well documented although there are only ranges on the conversions of high level attributes and prestige, but its more than sufficient to win, say, 20 championships with. i didn't have a damn clue what the conversions were, actually i did but i was totally wrong, when i won those, so you should be able to make due...)

and yes, auctions are ridiculously simple. so is the HD mechanism at its core. all actions are worth some amount of effort. for example, if a phone call = 10 points (its 10 dollars) a home visit is 700 points, and so on. now that home visit might cost you 300 dollars if you are close or 1500 if its international, but its still 1 home visit. now, add up your effort, multiply by some prestige factor, add up his effort, multiply by some prestige factor, and you basically have 2 numbers and the bigger number wins. it is that simple. i guess to me, thats simple, i recognize i can't explain it in 5 words so its not SUPER simple but come on, thats not that bad. oh, and in d2 and d3, you can mostly ignore that prestige factor, which i think makes it really simple?

You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole with this. Just admit you chose a bad example and move on. 

"Some prestige factor?" You don't have prestige factors in determining the winners of auctions, let alone unknown ones. 

Your little brag about winning championships is hilarious. More haughtiness and better-than-you stuff. Let me know when your championships can buy a cup of coffee. They're worthless. 

See you saying you can ignore the prestige factor absolutely flies in the face of what othre people have said. IIRC, one person said it doubles the effort required...that's certainly not negligible. And now we're back to misinformation and lacking clarity.

hmm, 20 championships is about... well, i can't remember how many reward points is it, but it sure as hell buys a lot more than a cup of coffee. easily hundreds of dollars, converted to amazon cards. not that it has anything to do with anything... im just making a point, a very simple and obvious one to everyone else, which is the kind of **** that you nitpick hasn't held anyone else back, so why can't you deal with that same level of ambiguity? or frankly, a lesser level of ambiguity, as you have high level coaches spoon feeding you ranges.

How many dollars per hour of labor does that add up for those 20 championships? Or should I say, cents per hour?

labor? well, it was quite a few hours of fun, but no labor... so infinity dollars per hour? or undefined, depending on your school of thought. besides, thats not the point. you said a cup of coffee. i could afford at least a 250 dollar gourmet coffee maker and a bunch of those stupid packet things. but as i don't drink coffee, i think 1 cup from starbucks is MORE than sufficient. besides, this is a ridiculously asinine topic anyway, let's get back to the recruiting stuff that doesn't make sense.

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 3:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 3:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:57:00 AM (view original):
etta, i really feel like you try to nitpick answers to say why they aren't good enough, instead of genuinely trying to make the most out of them. you are in a thread where many very helpful coaches (as deemed by consumers of their information) have offered you information, the kind that most coaches in this game would really benefit from and probably be pretty damn happy to get. there is so much info in this thread, its actually kind of a shame its not being spent answering the questions of those who really have legitimate questions, which is basically everybody. i have tons of legitimate questions - this is a sufficiently complex game, nobody knows everything nor should they, just like no bridge player or starcraft player or any major game in the world player can answer every question. there are many unknowns, that is what makes a sufficiently complex game sufficiently complex :)

seriously, if you try to get as much as you can out of these answers, like, the 2HV + scholarship being enough to get ANY player in your division to consider you (assuming they aren't considering anyone else - that passes their considering point threshold, though), instead of nitpicking like, well, maybe its 1.5HV and you can't tell me even though its a near-meaningless 150 dollar difference... i think you'd be about a hundred times better off.

I don't think it matters because the players in my division aren't good enough to do anything in the year I have left anyway.

so, you admit i shared sufficient detail to capture all that matters to your situation? i think i have given you all you can reasonably ask for then, on this subject, yes?

No, but whatever. I'm not sure it's possible to do that from what you're saying. 

So I can get some garbage players that wouldn't be good enough to compete for championships at any point in their career with 2HV and a scholarship...goody.

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 3:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:56:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:47:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:44:00 AM (view original):
I am fairly certain you can parse that post of mine however you like and unless calling someone a martyr is an attack I don't see it. You might get me on language, but I imagine I'd get off with a warning. Go ahead though - the only reason I'm still up watching is hoping you mess up and go over the line so I can blow you in. I'm not ashamed to say it.

I tried, many times to help you. I am not kind enough to be told that my help is worthless and that I am trying to provide misinformation as the only way I can win games against new players as you continue to insinuate vets are doing and let it slide. So, do carry on, and lets see where the chips wind up, ok?

You should be ashamed to say it. You must truly have a trite and meaningless life. 

I really don't care what you do. You can report me right now if you want. Go for it. I'm probably 95% leaving when the meter runs out anyway.

nothing to report - yet. But I have faith. You've never let me down before...

I said hell earlier. Report that. 

I'm so glad I don't have as low a value on my time as to sit around looking for something about which to gripe and complain to site admin. 

yeah, you are too busy single-handedly saving multi-million dollar aircraft...

I don't do that anymore. But I have.

this is game. nobody cares about your opinions on real life, whether its what basketball is like or what highschool kids think and act like, or what you have done with your life, or if you are smarter than the average bear, or any of the terrible topics we've covered in our time together (i don't just mean tonight). at least, not when it comes to matters of HD. there is an off topic forum for going on about aircrafts and polar bears should you want to discuss those forums further ;) 

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 3:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 3:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 3:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:46:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:28:00 AM (view original):
"just because you have prestige and division playing into STRATEGY, that does not suggest the recruiting mechanism itself is at its core, a simple auction style recruiting system. a system system can lead to complex results, complex strategies."

Actually it means exactly that. Auctions are ridiculously simple. If you're willing to commit the most resources (usually currency, but not always), you win. That's not the HD system, as you freely admit, but for some reason insist on calling it an auction anyway. 

Adding the word style to something doesn't automatically change an incorrect statement into a correct statement.

lol... yes, auction style is different than auction. its auction style because its effort not money and there is a straight forward mapping from money to effort (this is well documented although there are only ranges on the conversions of high level attributes and prestige, but its more than sufficient to win, say, 20 championships with. i didn't have a damn clue what the conversions were, actually i did but i was totally wrong, when i won those, so you should be able to make due...)

and yes, auctions are ridiculously simple. so is the HD mechanism at its core. all actions are worth some amount of effort. for example, if a phone call = 10 points (its 10 dollars) a home visit is 700 points, and so on. now that home visit might cost you 300 dollars if you are close or 1500 if its international, but its still 1 home visit. now, add up your effort, multiply by some prestige factor, add up his effort, multiply by some prestige factor, and you basically have 2 numbers and the bigger number wins. it is that simple. i guess to me, thats simple, i recognize i can't explain it in 5 words so its not SUPER simple but come on, thats not that bad. oh, and in d2 and d3, you can mostly ignore that prestige factor, which i think makes it really simple?

You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole with this. Just admit you chose a bad example and move on. 

"Some prestige factor?" You don't have prestige factors in determining the winners of auctions, let alone unknown ones. 

Your little brag about winning championships is hilarious. More haughtiness and better-than-you stuff. Let me know when your championships can buy a cup of coffee. They're worthless. 

See you saying you can ignore the prestige factor absolutely flies in the face of what othre people have said. IIRC, one person said it doubles the effort required...that's certainly not negligible. And now we're back to misinformation and lacking clarity.

hmm, 20 championships is about... well, i can't remember how many reward points is it, but it sure as hell buys a lot more than a cup of coffee. easily hundreds of dollars, converted to amazon cards. not that it has anything to do with anything... im just making a point, a very simple and obvious one to everyone else, which is the kind of **** that you nitpick hasn't held anyone else back, so why can't you deal with that same level of ambiguity? or frankly, a lesser level of ambiguity, as you have high level coaches spoon feeding you ranges.

How many dollars per hour of labor does that add up for those 20 championships? Or should I say, cents per hour?

labor? well, it was quite a few hours of fun, but no labor... so infinity dollars per hour? or undefined, depending on your school of thought. besides, thats not the point. you said a cup of coffee. i could afford at least a 250 dollar gourmet coffee maker and a bunch of those stupid packet things. but as i don't drink coffee, i think 1 cup from starbucks is MORE than sufficient. besides, this is a ridiculously asinine topic anyway, let's get back to the recruiting stuff that doesn't make sense.

LOL your refusal to give a straight answer says all that needs to be said.

Labor can be fun or it can be not fun. 

Point being that those championships about which you like to brag are of extremely limited value to anyone put you and whatever group of weirdos here chooses to worship you for them.