Recruiting Question Topic

Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:25:00 AM (view original):
Is this then false?

Honor Cards
Honor Cards are the top five cards in each suit eg: Ace, King, Queen, Jack and 10. These cards are also known as high cards and are the hold the most value and are the most powerful cards in the game in order of suit. Each of these Honour cards is assigned a value.
Ace = 4 points
King = 3 Points
Queen = 2 points
Jack = 1 point

I give significantly less of a crap about bridge than HD, and that's already a pretty low bar. Maybe when I start drawing social security I'll start caring about bridge. i would say when I'm in a nursing home but I don't plan on that ever happening. You must have hung out with a lot of either old or boring people as a kid. Maybe both.

So if I make a bit with great excitement and flair at an auction, does my bid count more than someone else's? No. That's why your characterization falls flat. Face it, you pretty much suck at comparisons. 

Speaking of games, I'm certainly not playing your little game of acting like I've never played anything more complex than tic-tac-toe. Why do you think you're entitled to know what games I've played so that you may judge them as you wish? Frankly, the best strategy scenarios I've ever been a part of, weren't f'ing games. Some of us have real world experience that doesn't come from a box. Do you truly not understand why you come off as haughty and full of yourself in light of this? You come off about like Will Hunting does in Sean's office on Good Will Hunting -- you don't know what it smells like in the Sistine Chapel, so to speak. 

It's painfully obvious now that no one will say what you have to do to get considered for a player, whether they know or not. But saying that level of detail is not relevant really isn't good cover. What may not be relevant to you may be relevant to someone else. But as I did, you can go to a website and find out what the highest ranking cards are in a game of bridge, and what major and minor suits are, and how tricks are won. HD doesn't tell you anything explicitly in the rules, directions, FAQ, etc. about how recruits are won in pulldown fashion, or really in any fashion. 

 
that is incredibly basic and extremely far from complete. there is plenty of stuff like that about HD that is true. whats the best hand, whats the best card to have, those were your initial examples - neither is answered. "an ace" isn't a card, as i'm sure you know. like i said - you can find plenty of BASIC information about bridge - but those who play a lot will have way more than you can ever learn, without significant play yourself. presenting the most basic of information does nothing to contradict my claims. but again, off subject.

further, i just told you how to get a player to consider you. how was that not enough? the best players in this game can make due with that, can't you? it varies by player. i gave you a relatively tight range. what do you want me to say, the average player you recruit from your division takes 1200 points of effort to consider you, at the start of recruiting, although this diminishes to around 900 points by the end of recruiting, where 1 point is 1 dollar of phone call effort? i suspect that is relatively accurate, but a fat lot of good it does you. i would guess my earlier answer is more appropriate.

and i wasn't suggesting you don't know a game more complex than tic-tac-toe. i just recognized it would be easy to get around the point of the question by suggesting such a game. im sure you played some real game in your time. or maybe you haven't, but i assume you have? of course real life scenarios are more complex, but how the hell are you going to encapsulate that here? you can try if you like, but seems like a big waste of time to me...

anyway, back to the original point. what again about these situation you see that are out of whack with the knowledge posted on these forums?
4/25/2014 2:37 AM
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Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:37:00 AM (view original):
One of them has 3 open spots, and 4 players considering. How the hell can that guy have spent more than me?
what were your actions on the player? that should make it easy to give you an answer. if you want to provide an exact answer in the form of points of effort, where 1 point of effort is 1 dollar worth of a phone call, to obfuscate your real expenditures, feel free. or just post what you spent and i won't quote it, and then you can delete it, and i answered it.

i can give you GENERAL GUIDELINES on how this is possible given no knowledge of your actions, but you seem not to like those kind of answers. basically, those other 3 guys could be considering him for as little as 330 dollars, so that tells us nothing really about what is feasible. 3 open spots, thats 15k, if he put it all on 1 player... im guessing thats more than you? thats not even factoring in distance or tools used. what is the distance for each of you? plus he could have bonus money, if hes in a major conference. or did you say this guy is in the same conference? well, in that case, he could have roll over. but even if not, i am curious what effort you put in, because im guessing its not near 15k, that would be very surprising indeed, with 30k for 11 openings. now more likely, this guy does not have 15k in, but whatever you have in, converted to effort and compensating for distance, i am not at all surprised he could get ahead of you with 3 open spots. 11 openings is a very, very weak position to be in. id much rather have 3, i'll beat that 11 opening guy 9 times out of 10, if not more.
4/25/2014 2:41 AM
I am fairly certain you can parse that post of mine however you like and unless calling someone a martyr is an attack I don't see it. You might get me on language, but I imagine I'd get off with a warning. Go ahead though - the only reason I'm still up watching is hoping you mess up and go over the line so I can blow you in. I'm not ashamed to say it.

I tried, many times to help you. I am not kind enough to be told that my help is worthless and that I am trying to provide misinformation as the only way I can win games against new players as you continue to insinuate vets are doing and let it slide. So, do carry on, and lets see where the chips wind up, ok?
4/25/2014 2:44 AM
"It varies by player" isn't an answer that really helps anyone. Your average amount of "points" (another concept that IIRC isn't discussed in the game literature) answer at least gives some concrete idea, of course naturally you're going to start to doubt that when you see multiple cases where that doesn't hold true.

Play the game of "come up with a way to get a 130 million dollar aircraft back to base in one piece" and let me know how Starcraft compares lol.

I told you how to better encapsulate real life in recruiting here. I've said plenty of ways. 
4/25/2014 2:45 AM
Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:28:00 AM (view original):
"just because you have prestige and division playing into STRATEGY, that does not suggest the recruiting mechanism itself is at its core, a simple auction style recruiting system. a system system can lead to complex results, complex strategies."

Actually it means exactly that. Auctions are ridiculously simple. If you're willing to commit the most resources (usually currency, but not always), you win. That's not the HD system, as you freely admit, but for some reason insist on calling it an auction anyway. 

Adding the word style to something doesn't automatically change an incorrect statement into a correct statement.
lol... yes, auction style is different than auction. its auction style because its effort not money and there is a straight forward mapping from money to effort (this is well documented although there are only ranges on the conversions of high level attributes and prestige, but its more than sufficient to win, say, 20 championships with. i didn't have a damn clue what the conversions were, actually i did but i was totally wrong, when i won those, so you should be able to make due...)

and yes, auctions are ridiculously simple. so is the HD mechanism at its core. all actions are worth some amount of effort. for example, if a phone call = 10 points (its 10 dollars) a home visit is 700 points, and so on. now that home visit might cost you 300 dollars if you are close or 1500 if its international, but its still 1 home visit. now, add up your effort, multiply by some prestige factor, add up his effort, multiply by some prestige factor, and you basically have 2 numbers and the bigger number wins. it is that simple. i guess to me, thats simple, i recognize i can't explain it in 5 words so its not SUPER simple but come on, thats not that bad. oh, and in d2 and d3, you can mostly ignore that prestige factor, which i think makes it really simple?

4/25/2014 2:46 AM
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Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:36:00 AM (view original):
Jeff, you are one of the smartest dudes I know, so you must be drunk. If he tells you what you are asking and you provide the answers he "seeks" he won't be able to be the martyr and tell everyone how much the game sucks and we are all ******** for not telling him exactly how to play it, except that if we try to do that he gets pissy because we treat him like a child. Would that I could, he'd get to go to his room for like ever.

Is it not telling that this is his first day with posting rights again and already everyone is an elitest ***** who only wants to belittle him and no one answers his questions, except for the literally dozens of posts by you and many others answering the damn question?

Maybe if we actually do treat him like he thinks he's being treated he really will just go the eff away. Or at least maybe he'll offer to meet one of us in an airport to presumably kick our *** and get banned from posting some more, maybe for good this time...
i won't deny drinking but i want to make it clear it was only enough to allow me to tolerate this conversation, not enough to crap up the quality of the information in any of my posts :)
4/25/2014 2:48 AM
Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:47:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:44:00 AM (view original):
I am fairly certain you can parse that post of mine however you like and unless calling someone a martyr is an attack I don't see it. You might get me on language, but I imagine I'd get off with a warning. Go ahead though - the only reason I'm still up watching is hoping you mess up and go over the line so I can blow you in. I'm not ashamed to say it.

I tried, many times to help you. I am not kind enough to be told that my help is worthless and that I am trying to provide misinformation as the only way I can win games against new players as you continue to insinuate vets are doing and let it slide. So, do carry on, and lets see where the chips wind up, ok?
You should be ashamed to say it. You must truly have a trite and meaningless life. 

I really don't care what you do. You can report me right now if you want. Go for it. I'm probably 95% leaving when the meter runs out anyway.
nothing to report - yet. But I have faith. You've never let me down before...


4/25/2014 2:49 AM
Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:32:00 AM (view original):
The most I'm at is about 6,000 on one player. That's a pulldown. 

The D-II players I haven't spent as much on because I more or less quit, but one of them I didn't get listed for even when the computer was the only competitor (and someone else with fewer open scholarships did), and the other I was listed for and then fell off almost immediately when another team with fewer scholarships and more considering recruits came in. That's particularly ridiculous IMO because there's no way a player should just forget about you when another mediocre program comes along. That's what really ****** me off, because that just makes no sense. 

I guess I could just wait until the end to take mediocre players to fill the roster, but then I'm just screwing whoever comes next by having to deal with trash recruits that were signed out of desperation. 
ok, now we are getting somewhere. not as far as if you'd post the damn history with the scholarship and couple visits or whatever it is... but somewhere. 6k on a pulldown isn't that much because all effort sent to pulldowns is reduced by some multiplier in the 3-5x range, AND you are doing inefficient scouting trips. again, this goes back to the risky nature of pulldowns. when you send those 15 SVs and get considered, its basically just the roughly 2HVs worth of effort it would take him to consider you after he dropped.

now if you spent a lot less on a d2 player, say 2k, why the hell couldn't a school with 15k spend more? THAT makes no sense...
4/25/2014 2:49 AM
Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:36:00 AM (view original):
Jeff, you are one of the smartest dudes I know, so you must be drunk. If he tells you what you are asking and you provide the answers he "seeks" he won't be able to be the martyr and tell everyone how much the game sucks and we are all ******** for not telling him exactly how to play it, except that if we try to do that he gets pissy because we treat him like a child. Would that I could, he'd get to go to his room for like ever.

Is it not telling that this is his first day with posting rights again and already everyone is an elitest ***** who only wants to belittle him and no one answers his questions, except for the literally dozens of posts by you and many others answering the damn question?

Maybe if we actually do treat him like he thinks he's being treated he really will just go the eff away. Or at least maybe he'll offer to meet one of us in an airport to presumably kick our *** and get banned from posting some more, maybe for good this time...
i won't deny drinking but i want to make it clear it was only enough to allow me to tolerate this conversation, not enough to crap up the quality of the information in any of my posts :)
yeah - drunk enough to go spreading recruiting values around - then everyone will know and us vets won't be able to use super secret knowledge imparted by the game creators in a mystical ceremony to lord over noobs anymore...
4/25/2014 2:51 AM
Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:39:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:36:00 AM (view original):
Jeff, you are one of the smartest dudes I know, so you must be drunk. If he tells you what you are asking and you provide the answers he "seeks" he won't be able to be the martyr and tell everyone how much the game sucks and we are all ******** for not telling him exactly how to play it, except that if we try to do that he gets pissy because we treat him like a child. Would that I could, he'd get to go to his room for like ever.

Is it not telling that this is his first day with posting rights again and already everyone is an elitest ***** who only wants to belittle him and no one answers his questions, except for the literally dozens of posts by you and many others answering the damn question?

Maybe if we actually do treat him like he thinks he's being treated he really will just go the eff away. Or at least maybe he'll offer to meet one of us in an airport to presumably kick our *** and get banned from posting some more, maybe for good this time...
You should be banned for all the foul language in this post. But if I report you, I get banned because...well, I don't know why, but that's how this has worked so far. I get blamed for being attacked.

What a freaking hypocrite. 
foul language? what are we, 10 years old? give me a break. i didn't even realize he swore. lets get back to those players who have such confusing behavior, although it really seems like straight textbook to me. this arguing about who is doing what is a waste of time. even bigger waste of time than the rest of this.
4/25/2014 2:52 AM
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Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:49:00 AM (view original):
Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:47:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:44:00 AM (view original):
I am fairly certain you can parse that post of mine however you like and unless calling someone a martyr is an attack I don't see it. You might get me on language, but I imagine I'd get off with a warning. Go ahead though - the only reason I'm still up watching is hoping you mess up and go over the line so I can blow you in. I'm not ashamed to say it.

I tried, many times to help you. I am not kind enough to be told that my help is worthless and that I am trying to provide misinformation as the only way I can win games against new players as you continue to insinuate vets are doing and let it slide. So, do carry on, and lets see where the chips wind up, ok?
You should be ashamed to say it. You must truly have a trite and meaningless life. 

I really don't care what you do. You can report me right now if you want. Go for it. I'm probably 95% leaving when the meter runs out anyway.
nothing to report - yet. But I have faith. You've never let me down before...


I said hell earlier. Report that. 

I'm so glad I don't have as low a value on my time as to sit around looking for something about which to gripe and complain to site admin. 
4/25/2014 2:54 AM
Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2014 2:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by ettaexpress on 4/25/2014 2:39:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 4/25/2014 2:36:00 AM (view original):
Jeff, you are one of the smartest dudes I know, so you must be drunk. If he tells you what you are asking and you provide the answers he "seeks" he won't be able to be the martyr and tell everyone how much the game sucks and we are all ******** for not telling him exactly how to play it, except that if we try to do that he gets pissy because we treat him like a child. Would that I could, he'd get to go to his room for like ever.

Is it not telling that this is his first day with posting rights again and already everyone is an elitest ***** who only wants to belittle him and no one answers his questions, except for the literally dozens of posts by you and many others answering the damn question?

Maybe if we actually do treat him like he thinks he's being treated he really will just go the eff away. Or at least maybe he'll offer to meet one of us in an airport to presumably kick our *** and get banned from posting some more, maybe for good this time...
You should be banned for all the foul language in this post. But if I report you, I get banned because...well, I don't know why, but that's how this has worked so far. I get blamed for being attacked.

What a freaking hypocrite. 
foul language? what are we, 10 years old? give me a break. i didn't even realize he swore. lets get back to those players who have such confusing behavior, although it really seems like straight textbook to me. this arguing about who is doing what is a waste of time. even bigger waste of time than the rest of this.
So the rules only apply when you notice them or when you think they're important? 
4/25/2014 2:55 AM
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