All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Anybody watching Spurs/Heat game...thoughts?
7/9/2013 2:33 PM
He had to have lied to Gilbert because otherwise Gilbert would have badmouthed him before The Decision?  Wow.

Is it not possible that Gilbert could have believed LeBron would stay despite never getting any reassurances from him?  And there's also some space between believing he's staying and believing he's going, it's called not knowing what he's going to do but hoping he'll stay.  And if you're in that space, lashing out at him isn't exactly a good call either.

And I'll say this again - IF (and I don't believe this happened) LeBron said "Yeah, I'm definitely staying" while refusing to sign, Gilbert is the biggest fool out there for believing him.
7/9/2013 2:50 PM
 Okay, so here's Gilbert's letter, ridiculous font and all:

Dear Cleveland, all of Northeast Ohio and Cleveland Cavaliers supporters wherever you may be tonight;

As you now know, our former hero, who grew up in the very region that he deserted this evening, is no longer a Cleveland Cavalier.

This was announced with a several-day, narcissistic, self-promotional build-up culminating with a national TV special of his "decision" unlike anything ever "witnessed" in the history of sports and probably the history of entertainment.

Clearly, this is bitterly disappointing to all of us.

The good news is that the ownership team and the rest of the hard-working, loyal, and driven staff over here at your hometown Cavaliers have not betrayed you nor NEVER will betray you.

There is so much more to tell you about the events of the recent past and our more than exciting future. Over the next several days and weeks, we will be communicating much of that to you.

You simply don't deserve this kind of cowardly betrayal.

You have given so much and deserve so much more.

In the meantime, I want to make one statement to you tonight: "I personally guarantee that the Cleveland Cavaliers will win an NBA Championship before the self-titled former 'king' wins one."

You can take it to the bank.

If you thought we were motivated before tonight to bring the hardware to Cleveland, I can tell you that this shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our "motivation" to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels.

Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.

Sorry, but that's simply not how it works.

This shocking act of disloyalty from our homegrown "chosen one" sends the exact opposite lesson of what we would want our children to learn. And "who" we would want them to grow up to become.

But the good news is that this heartless and callous action can only serve as the antidote to the so-called "curse" on Cleveland, Ohio.

The self-declared former "King" will be taking the "curse" with him down south. And until he does "right" by Cleveland and Ohio, James (and the town where he plays) will unfortunately own this dreaded spell and bad karma.

Just watch.

Sleep well, Cleveland. Tomorrow is a new and much brighter day...

I PROMISE you that our energy, focus, capital, knowledge and experience will be directed at one thing and one thing only:

DELIVERING YOU the championship you have long deserved and is long overdue...

Dan Gilbert

Majority Owner

Cleveland Cavaliers  


So he said all of that to the whole world, but wouldn't throw in a "he betrayed me too"?  That's just senseless.  It can't be that he was afraid of looking foolish; I direct you back to the friggin' font... along with:

"I personally guarantee that the Cleveland Cavaliers will win an NBA Championship before the self-titled former 'king' wins one."

You can take it to the bank.

Nobody who fears looking foolish would have made that prediction.

7/9/2013 2:53 PM
We can all think what we want, but there's no evidence that it ever happened.  Now, of course, it's also impossible to prove that it didn't happen, but I think the burden of proof is on you in this case.

Absent evidence, which seems more likely of Dan Gilbert, a man who has made billions in business which enabled him to become the Cavs owner in the first place?

 

A) He was dumb enough to believe a player who was professing his loyalty all while consistently refusing to put it in writing
B) He saw the future of his franchise and his biggest money maker walking out on him (in an admittedly very poor fashion) and decided to vent about it, while also trying to tap in to fan anger to help mitigate the dramatic decline in interest in the team that he saw coming

7/9/2013 2:56 PM
If you care to dispute that you're not doing that, by all means, give it a shot . Tell me how you haven't attacked me. Tell me how you didn't just insist I've talked down to people even though I already showed you how that wasn't true.
Again, you're holding yourself to a lower standard of proof than everyone else.  You didn't "show us" how that wasn't true.  You simply stated that it wasn't true.  Anyone with any discernment at all can see that it IS true.  I'll refer you back to the kbm post as soon as I can find it.  Since we all have reading comprehension above the 4th grade level, it's going to be clear to everyone but you that you ARE, in fact, "talking down" to the rest of the people in the thread.  Which has consistently been a hallmark of all your discussion tactics, consistently telling everyone else they lack the background to understand your arguments or are too closed-minded to see the truth in what you say.  I guess that's easier than admitting that there are massive logical flaws in the thinking to which you have so significantly married yourself.
7/9/2013 2:57 PM
Still, there's no need to paint me as doing something I'm not doing just because it makes it easier for you to somehow make me the villain. I don't "talk down" to anyone, and there is no "conjecture" to "pass off as fact" - those are patently false statements.

I wouldn't expect many people to understand that, though. You have to be able to look at it from a perspective other than your own to understand how much it harmed the people there to have LeBron leave the way he did.

Anyone who knows even a little bit about economics can easily see how that would happen.

LeBron's negative impact on Cleveland when he left, and particularly by his leaving in the manner he did, was far greater than the corresponding positive impact he had on Miami's economy.  In fact, the difference is likely so great it isn't even worth a comparison.

But I digress. No offense, but I'd rather not get into another argument where I have to explain economic concepts to someone (or several people) only for them to disregard what I've just said and purposefully continue on in ignorance because they do not want to admit that I might be right.

No offense, but you probably don't know enough about economics to truly be able to tell if an impact was made, let alone how much it was.
7/9/2013 3:02 PM
Actually it's an amazing counter-point, because it's the truth.

You (and several others) do not care about the real argument at this point. All you want to do is attack me, and you justify this by twisting what I have to say into something it isn't so you can paint me as a "bad person".

If you care to dispute that you're not doing that, by all means, give it a shot . Tell me how you haven't attacked me. Tell me how you didn't just insist I've talked down to people even though I already showed you how that wasn't true.

No, you won't do that because   think you know very well you've jumped to some incorrect conclusions regarding what I've said. Now that I've called you out on it, you ignore it and move on. Looks like YOU are the one saying "nuh-huh".?
LOL, now you're changing to "I know you are, but what am I?"  Please make sure you use the words "bad person" for the 19th time when you respond.  Thanks.

But you're right, I couldn't care less about whatever you're trying to argue at this point.  I just want you to admit you acted like a dick in this thread.  I realize it's a lost cause.

Again here is the list of the instances, just in this thread, of you talking down to people.  Feel free to explain why none of these are examples of talking down to people.  Your prior "explanation" is below too.  Note that assuming your knowledge of economics is greater than a stranger's and pointing out that fact does not fall under "telling it like it is."
I wouldn't expect many people to understand that, though. You have to be able to look at it from a perspective other than your own to understand how much it harmed the people there to have LeBron leave the way he did.

Anyone who knows even a little bit about economics can easily see how that would happen.

LeBron's negative impact on Cleveland when he left, and particularly by his leaving in the manner he did, was far greater than the corresponding positive impact he had on Miami's economy.  In fact, the difference is likely so great it isn't even worth a comparison.

But I digress. No offense, but I'd rather not get into another argument where I have to explain economic concepts to someone (or several people) only for them to disregard what I've just said and purposefully continue on in ignorance because they do not want to admit that I might be right.

No offense, but you probably don't know enough about economics to truly be able to tell if an impact was made, let alone how much it was.
And in none of those did I "talk down" to anyone. I simply stated the facts as they are. I tell it like it is, and I admit it is in a blunt manner, but I'm only speaking the truth. If the truth hurts, I know its easier to swallow if you have someone to get angry at, so you want to blame me as the messenger. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that blame is misplaced.

7/9/2013 4:00 PM

i rather think karma DID kick in there bistiza - dan gilbert is a piece of ****, and he had it coming. you know what REALLY sends a bad message to our kids? the mantra of "we should get to keep the best player in the world - no, not because we did *anything* right from a management perspective - but rather, because he was born near here". yeah, great lesson about working hard for what you get, not being entitled... oh wait.

ill humor your request later - when you replied to me and said something to the effect of, you were looking for a legitimate debate, not trying to just string people on, and hope others would do the same. im not sure i buy it but ill give you a shot. there are a couple points not so central to the LBJ **** that i could not care less about, that you made, that id like to refute, so i can judge your reasoning skills for myself. i mean i DID suffer through the work ethic thread, but that was so much opinion and bullshit, i figure you deserve a second chance. 

7/9/2013 4:30 PM
One of the cardinal rules of public speaking or debate is that it's not what you say that matters, it's the public perception of what you say.  And when you say
I wouldn't expect many people to understand that, though. You have to be able to look at it from a perspective other than your own to understand how much it harmed the people there to have LeBron leave the way he did.
or
No offense, but you probably don't know enough about economics to truly be able to tell if an impact was made, let alone how much it was.
The public perception is "that arrogant ****."  Clearly I'm not alone in that perception, it seems to be nearly universal amongst the public to whom you addressed the statements, IE respondents on this discussion board.
7/9/2013 4:38 PM
I don't think you know enough about anything at this point, frankly, to talk down to me, but go for it.
7/9/2013 4:40 PM
No offense, but you probably don't know enough about economics to truly be able to tell if an impact was made, let alone how much it was.
For all you know, I'm Paul Freaking Krugman.  You're not telling a truth here.  You're speculating in a condescending way.
7/9/2013 4:43 PM
I don't think he felt he had to say "he betrayed me too". I think it was obvious he felt betrayed too.
That wasn't my point.  Your assertion was that he was too embarrassed to say it.  Given everything else in the letter, specifically the "betrayal" ranting, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have exposed LBJ's verbal agreement to sign, followed by a double-cross.  There's plenty of reason to believe he would have.
7/9/2013 4:45 PM
Communication 101.  As the sender you do not get to decide how the message will be interpreted, that responsibility (or privilege) is on the receiver.  So, actually, one of your defenses holds true here for the rest of the people posting in this thread.  All the people that say you talk down to people are correct because they say so.

Oh, and just because you preface a statement with, "no offense, but...." doesn't mean you're not talking down to people. For example, no offense, but the way you argue your points is baseless, childish and idiotic.  In fact, of all the people in the entire world I think you are probably the most condescending, know it all, douche and you should probably consider listening to other people just a little bit sometimes.  But, seriously, no offense.

7/9/2013 4:47 PM
Hm.  This thread seems to have lost several pages due to bistiza deleting a bunch of his posts.  I wonder why someone would remove that amount of cold, hard truth from the interwebs?
7/9/2013 4:54 PM (edited)
With all due respect, and remember I'm sayin' with all due respect, that idea ain't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on.

But yeah I noticed the number of pages shrunk too.  Kinda strange.
7/9/2013 5:07 PM
Wait, you can get me a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on? How much you want for it?
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