All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Anybody watching Spurs/Heat game...thoughts?
6/27/2013 2:14 PM
An appeal to probability (or appeal to possibility) is the logical fallacy of taking something for granted because it would probably be the case (or might possibly be the case).[1] Inductive arguments lack deductive validity and must therefore be asserted or denied in the premises.


Are you saying that you need a reason to justify a belief?
6/27/2013 2:28 PM
"I've spoken with many people personally who said they thought less of the city because of what LeBron did with respect to "the decision"."

And I've spoken with many people personally who didn't care about the Cavs before "The Decision" who are pulling for them now because of how LeBron left.  We are at an impasse...
6/27/2013 2:40 PM (edited)
Posted by shawnfucious on 6/27/2013 1:52:00 PM (view original):
I came back to this thread looking for more discussion about the heat and the spurs or at least about lebron and his impact on cleveland, but all I see is people arguing about arguing for goodness sakes.

What I also see is this bis you rub ppl the wrong way because you can't figure out how to say what you want to say without coming across as some kind of arrogant know it all guy you seem smart but you sure need to learn some social skills. As for everyone else do you all just enjoy arguing with bis because you think he's an azz or something because clearly you will not change his mind on anything so you can't expect that to happen so what is the point then unless you just want to pester him because you don't like him. I think bis is not a troll bc he seems to believe what he says plus why would anyone troll on this kind of site but if he is a troll then some of you are playing right into his hands anyway and either way bis is not ever going to give up on this so unless you are having fun there is no point.

Exactly this. I think his points are as bad as everybody else, and his personality equally as ******, but it would be pointless to engage in a lengthy debate with a person who refuses to see the other side of an argument. Not only that but his rebuttals show off his arrogance (which is probably actually insecurity). The fact hat he has on multiple instances in this thread pointed out how smart he is and how great he is at debating, screams arrogance but is more likely an insecure person's attempt at showing confidence. Anybody that feels the need to explicitly tell a message board full of strangers how smart they are clearly has confidence issues. Smart people's intelligence just shines through their arguments, there is no need for them to make an announcement. My experience with these kind of people is they will never admit defeat because they think in order to get respect they can never show "weakness." On this note, I'm up out of this thread. 


6/27/2013 2:36 PM
Posted by bistiza on 6/27/2013 1:59:00 PM (view original):
Or maybe I'm anyone other than you who has normal human conversations in which a statement like this would literally NEVER come up.
Nah, conversations about sports, sports teams, sporting events and happenings, those things NEVER come up in "normal human conversations". No one would ever talk about LeBron James, or the Cleveland Cavaliers or Miami Heat, the NBA, or a major news event involving any of those such as "the decision", none of those would come up in "normal human conversations". That just doesn't happen. Never has and never will. This thread must also not be a "normal human conversation".
I know this is true not only because that's what typically happens .....

This is great and almost the definition of logical fallacy. Because it typically happens it is a fact......
?You're kidding, right?

Absent information leading to another conclusion, past behavior can often predict future results. It's not 100 percent, obviously, but it works often enough that you need to see a reason not to think it would be true in any particular case. That's not a logical fallacy, rather it is a common sense truth.

In other words, if you want to say a situation is an outlier that doesn't follow typical patterns, fine, but you're going to need a reason to justify that belief.

That's not talking about sports.  It's talking about personal opinions on the city of Cleveland and factors contributing to them.  THAT never comes up in a normal human conversation.  Nobody's ever been standing next to me in the bar chatting and said, "you know, I used to think Cleveland was a really cool town, and I wanted to go there, but now that LeBron left them so publicly I think that city must suck.  I will never visit it or spend any of my money there."
6/27/2013 2:40 PM
Posted by llamanunts on 6/23/2013 3:34:00 PM (view original):
Ever seen Kung Pow: Enter The Fist? bistiza argues the way Wimp Lo fights.

www.youtube.com/watch
Seriously, the video (short) nails this.
6/27/2013 3:27 PM
There's no "impasse" involved. I'm sure there are people who pull for the Cavs now because of "the decision" AND at the same time there are people who don't like the team and the city because of "the decision".
Find one.  Support your assertion.  Provide evidence.  If what you say is true, it shouldn't be difficult.
6/27/2013 3:45 PM
I know this is true not only because that's what typically happens when a celebrity figure effectively removes a "stamp of approval" from a region, but also because I've spoken with many people personally who said they thought less of the city because of what LeBron did with respect to "the decision".


No, actually you said this is true because that's what typically happens. Typically is an appeal to probability
6/27/2013 3:51 PM (edited)

"I'm sure there are people who pull for the Cavs now because of "the decision" AND at the same time there are people who don't like the team and the city because of "the decision". Both are true."
 
And if the former outnumber the latter, wouldn't the net effect of the "The Decision" be positive for the team and the city, as opposed to what would have happened had LeBron just left in a normal way?  I'm not saying that that's necessarily the case - I really have no idea, just as you really have no idea that it's the other way around.

Though I will say that when someone acts like an *** (in the eyes of the general public) toward someone or something, it "typically" creates sympathy for the perceived victim...

6/27/2013 4:17 PM
"Several people, did, however, express the basic sentiment that Cleveland must not be a nice city if LeBron doesn't even want to play for their team."

So clearly a woman said that, right?  That sounds like something a woman who doesn't follow sports would say.  And no offense intended to those particular women, but it's just ignorant.  I would have to restrain myself from mocking it if someone said that to me.
6/27/2013 6:53 PM
No, they're hardcore Cavaliers fans who spent a ton of money attending games and buying team merchandise and supporting the Cleveland economy.
6/28/2013 9:36 AM
No offense, but this sounds like quite the misogynist comment. For the record, the people who made these comments were of both genders. They were also involved in a sports discussion by choice, which should tell you they follow sports enough to care to be involved in the conversation.
My bad, I shouldn't have assumed they were all women.  So they were just dumb, then?  Because thinking that LeBron choosing to play for another team means that Cleveland "must not be a nice city" is a really really bad conclusion, and you seem to be basing a lot on that.  In fact the assumption that he "doesn't even want to play for their team" is pretty dumb too.  It shows a complete lack of understanding about sports contract decisions.  And yet you keep beating people over the head with that point and claiming they are not worth your time if they can't see that self-evident truth.

This is exactly the problem I have with many people. If you don't agree with an opinion, you think it's okay to "mock it". I think that's an ignorant, classless move. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and no matter what you think of it, that doesn't give you the right to be an *** to them.
Notice I said I'd restrain myself.  I don't generally mock people to their face, especially about something so irrelevant.  You, on the other hand, have repeatedly talked down to everyone who doesn't agree with your conjecture that you pass off as fact.  Just because you keep saying something is obvious doesn't make it so.
6/28/2013 11:44 AM (edited)
I'm saying bad publicity  from "the decision" caused some people to get a negative impression of the team and the city, but I am NOT endorsing all of those negative impressions as being somehow "correct".
You misunderstand me.  The self-evident truth wasn't that those people were "correct"..although we're splitting hairs here.  The self-evident truth you've been peddling is that those reactions actually represent people in general.  Most everyone else ITT has disagreed with that, but you keep insisting that the impact is obvious..and your only support is some random handful of people that you now admit might not be correct.

If you want to refine your argument to the following, then I'd have to go ahead and concede that you're right.

1. Some number of dumb people voiced this opinion.
2. There are lots of dumb people in this country.
3. Therefore a lot of people will share this opinion and there will be an economic impact.
Still, there's no need to paint me as doing something I'm not doing just because it makes it easier for you to somehow make me the villain. I don't "talk down" to anyone, and there is no "conjecture" to "pass off as fact" - those are patently false statements.

I wouldn't expect many people to understand that, though. You have to be able to look at it from a perspective other than your own to understand how much it harmed the people there to have LeBron leave the way he did.

Anyone who knows even a little bit about economics can easily see how that would happen.

LeBron's negative impact on Cleveland when he left, and particularly by his leaving in the manner he did, was far greater than the corresponding positive impact he had on Miami's economy.  In fact, the difference is likely so great it isn't even worth a comparison.

But I digress. No offense, but I'd rather not get into another argument where I have to explain economic concepts to someone (or several people) only for them to disregard what I've just said and purposefully continue on in ignorance because they do not want to admit that I might be right.

No offense, but you probably don't know enough about economics to truly be able to tell if an impact was made, let alone how much it was.
Just a little compilation of things you've posted ITT.
6/28/2013 12:40 PM
 
Find one.  Support your assertion.  Provide evidence.  If what you say is true, it shouldn't be difficult.

Nice try, but I'm not playing that childish game. While it would be quite easy to find people who agree with me - a simple search would suffice, I'm sure - I'm not even going to bother wasting the time. Why?
Why?  Well, because that's what constructing an argument is.  You make an assertion, and you back it up in some way.  That's not a childish game, you silly person.
 
Because while I am willing to acknowledge that people disagree on this issue, you do not. You won't budge even an inch. I'm sure if I provided you with a list of people who agree with what I'm saying, you would dismiss it somehow anyway.
No, I wouldn't.  The whole point of that post was to get you to construct a single good-faith argument.  One.  My response would have been, "Hooray!  You did it!  That's how you make an argument!"
 
Beside that, I simply don't care. If you want to remain stubborn and refuse to accept that anyone could have an opinion other than yours, so be it.
I realize you don't care.  Your point about me refusing to accept a differing opinion and change my position is refuted within this very thread!  I mean, it was spasticity and not you, and that's because he argued in good faith and made a good point or two.

Stop wriggling and squirming and just support one of your claims with evidence once in a while.
6/28/2013 12:45 PM
Everyone else has to be civil; you don't.  Everyone else has to provide evidence for their claims; you don't.  Your statements are true because, duh.  That's a good enough argument for you.  You argue in bad faith.
6/28/2013 1:03 PM
Posted by llamanunts on 6/28/2013 12:45:00 PM (view original):
Everyone else has to be civil; you don't.  Everyone else has to provide evidence for their claims; you don't.  Your statements are true because, duh.  That's a good enough argument for you.  You argue in bad faith.
This about sums it up.
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