Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 2:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 12:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/1/2013 11:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 11:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 10:24:00 AM (view original):
If it makes you feel better, I think each individual marriage, traditional or same sex, is different.   I don't necessarily think married parents are any better at child-rearing than unmarried parents. 

Parenting is more a function of the people involved.  Having them being married provides a marginal benefit in that it provides a level of stability and security to the family unit.

I'm assuming you would also mean a civil union works with this argument too, yes? As in there's no difference.

I think tec is saying that a civil union and marriage are the same thing.

Right, tec?

One (marriage) has been around  for tens of thousands of years, and has a very specific and traditional connotation.

The other (civil union) has only been around a few decades, and has a slightly different meaning.

In terms of child rearing, they are the same?

In my opinion, no.  I've stated why probably three or four times over the past couple of days.

So why would you want to deprive those children of the benefit of married parents over civil union parents?

Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/1/2013 1:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 12:47:00 PM (view original):
You're also an adult(at least in age).   Ask a 6 year old.   You know, the people they'll be hanging around with all day.

The 6 year old isn't going to care, because he doesn't know any better.  He's going to love his parents, just like any child would.  You're afraid he's going to be made fun of? Kids are made fun of about everything.  I was suspended for a day in middle school because some kid was relentlessly making fun of my shoes and kicking me, so I punched him in the face.  If a kid wants to make fun of you, he'll make fun of you.  Schools are getting better and better at dealing with bullying.  You can find a ton of help online and organizations whose goal is to curb the bullying that takes place.  

And it's kinda besides the point.  tec thinks children with same-sex parents aren't raised as well as opposite sex parents.  I'm thinking that's not the case, and don't totally understand the "mom teaches you one thing, dad teaches you another thing" idea.  

So you've never noticed that, physical characteristics aside, men and women are different?  Different in the way that they think, in the way that they communicate, or in the way that they approach problems or situations?

Was your relationship with your mother exactly the same as the relationship with your father when you were growing up?

Is that true for all of your friends and co-workers?

In general, all people are different, regardless of gender in the way "that they think, in the way that they communicate, or in the way that they approach problems or situations."

No. Was your relationship with your mother exactly the same as my relationship with my mother? I'd argue that, based on this thread alone, my mom and my dad were much more similar in all of those things than your mom and my mom.

Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/1/2013 1:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 12:47:00 PM (view original):
You're also an adult(at least in age).   Ask a 6 year old.   You know, the people they'll be hanging around with all day.

The 6 year old isn't going to care, because he doesn't know any better.  He's going to love his parents, just like any child would.  You're afraid he's going to be made fun of? Kids are made fun of about everything.  I was suspended for a day in middle school because some kid was relentlessly making fun of my shoes and kicking me, so I punched him in the face.  If a kid wants to make fun of you, he'll make fun of you.  Schools are getting better and better at dealing with bullying.  You can find a ton of help online and organizations whose goal is to curb the bullying that takes place.  

And it's kinda besides the point.  tec thinks children with same-sex parents aren't raised as well as opposite sex parents.  I'm thinking that's not the case, and don't totally understand the "mom teaches you one thing, dad teaches you another thing" idea.  

So you've never noticed that, physical characteristics aside, men and women are different?  Different in the way that they think, in the way that they communicate, or in the way that they approach problems or situations?

Was your relationship with your mother exactly the same as the relationship with your father when you were growing up?

Is that true for all of your friends and co-workers?

Generally, yes, men and woman are different in the way they think, communicate, etc.  There are several good ways to solve problems or situations.  A lot of times, parents agree on the best way to solve a problem.

No, my relationship with any 2 people I've ever met have been different.

Again, in our rush to make everyone "equal", some of us prefer to move a little more cautiously.    Other prefer to say "**** it.  We can fix it later if it's broken!!"

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Again, in our rush to make everyone "equal", some of us prefer to move a little more cautiously.    Other prefer to say "**** it.  We can fix it later if it's broken!!"

How exactly do you want to determine if things should be allowed?

Right now we have 20 years of adoptions in the US and several countries in Western Europe, Australia, and South America that allow it. If that's not good enough to say, "hey look, those kids turned out fine," what is?

Take my route and switch over to only discussing things with tec.  Tec at least attempts to make rational points.  Mike's just being an idiot, even moreso than usual.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/1/2013 3:39:00 PM (view original):
Take my route and switch over to only discussing things with tec.  Tec at least attempts to make rational points.  Mike's just being an idiot, even moreso than usual.

I know. He really doesn't have a point, he just likes to stir ****.

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 3:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/1/2013 3:39:00 PM (view original):
Take my route and switch over to only discussing things with tec.  Tec at least attempts to make rational points.  Mike's just being an idiot, even moreso than usual.

I know. He really doesn't have a point, he just likes to stir ****.

He's admitted this much already.  He's said several times he doesn't care too much one way or the other.

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 2:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 12:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 12:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/1/2013 11:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 11:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 10:24:00 AM (view original):
If it makes you feel better, I think each individual marriage, traditional or same sex, is different.   I don't necessarily think married parents are any better at child-rearing than unmarried parents. 

Parenting is more a function of the people involved.  Having them being married provides a marginal benefit in that it provides a level of stability and security to the family unit.

I'm assuming you would also mean a civil union works with this argument too, yes? As in there's no difference.

I think tec is saying that a civil union and marriage are the same thing.

Right, tec?

One (marriage) has been around  for tens of thousands of years, and has a very specific and traditional connotation.

The other (civil union) has only been around a few decades, and has a slightly different meaning.

In terms of child rearing, they are the same?

In my opinion, no.  I've stated why probably three or four times over the past couple of days.

So why would you want to deprive those children of the benefit of married parents over civil union parents?

Are you being intentionally dense?

No, that's what you do.

You say that marriage is better for families than civil unions, right? (Civil unions can apply to straight couples)

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 3:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Again, in our rush to make everyone "equal", some of us prefer to move a little more cautiously.    Other prefer to say "**** it.  We can fix it later if it's broken!!"

How exactly do you want to determine if things should be allowed?

Right now we have 20 years of adoptions in the US and several countries in Western Europe, Australia, and South America that allow it. If that's not good enough to say, "hey look, those kids turned out fine," what is?

A whole 20 years?   So an adopted baby would be, oh, I don't know, 20-21?   Do we know those kids "turned out fine"?    They're barely adults.

****.  Maths must be hard.

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 5:43:00 PM (view original):
No, that's what you do.

You say that marriage is better for families than civil unions, right? (Civil unions can apply to straight couples)

I did not say that marriage was better for families than civil unions.

I said that children are better served with OS parents than SS parents.

Are you twisting my words to intentionally be an ***, or are you really that stupid that you can't follow what I'm saying?

Proving that OS parents are preferable to SS parents still doesn't mean SS adoption shouldn't be legal until you can find (fabricate) some numbers that suggest that there are enough OS parents in this country to raise all the children we have.  Since there aren't, that should take you a while.

That or convince me that SS parents are worse than foster parents.  I'm highly skeptical.  Mike suggested that, but he's an idiot.  I think you're too smart for that.

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 5:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 3:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/1/2013 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Again, in our rush to make everyone "equal", some of us prefer to move a little more cautiously.    Other prefer to say "**** it.  We can fix it later if it's broken!!"

How exactly do you want to determine if things should be allowed?

Right now we have 20 years of adoptions in the US and several countries in Western Europe, Australia, and South America that allow it. If that's not good enough to say, "hey look, those kids turned out fine," what is?

A whole 20 years?   So an adopted baby would be, oh, I don't know, 20-21?   Do we know those kids "turned out fine"?    They're barely adults.

****.  Maths must be hard.

So,for the third time, what exactly would you suggest?

Since, you know, 20 years and 14 countries isn't good enough.

Posted by tecwrg on 7/1/2013 6:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/1/2013 5:43:00 PM (view original):
No, that's what you do.

You say that marriage is better for families than civil unions, right? (Civil unions can apply to straight couples)

I did not say that marriage was better for families than civil unions.

I said that children are better served with OS parents than SS parents.

Are you twisting my words to intentionally be an ***, or are you really that stupid that you can't follow what I'm saying?

So, in terms of raising children, marriage and civil unions are equally beneficial?