All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Brand new and frustrated.
2/3/2013 2:15 PM (edited)
Posted by alblack56 on 2/3/2013 2:03:00 PM (view original):
You can cut players that you didn't recruit with no penalty. If you cut a player that you recruited, your reputation will decrease and recruiting is more difficult. It's not a BIG penalty so I wouldn't be discouraged about it. 

Normally, you get $2500/opening + carryover money + postseason money.  I don't think you get extra money if you cut a player. So, if you graduate 1 and cut 3, you only get the money for one player. 

Look at the FAQs for the details about cutting. I may not be 100% correct
this is all correct, except its $3000 per opening, and you also get a meager amount for FSS scouting (like 500 bucks or something, havent played d3 in forever, not sure the figure). the part about cutting is correct, low penalty, i wouldnt even worry about cutting 1, maybe 2 of your own guys - in intro d3 recruiting, you arent getting in major battles anyway, reputation really doesnt matter - except, you cant move to d2 right away, if your rep drops too much (but its not that harsh, you can safely cut 1 guy you recruited and a bunch you didnt, and be able to move up after just 1 more season). you do not get extra money if you cut someone - but its still often worth it, to get better guys in quicker. and still, if you cut anything but a senior (nobody really cuts seniors, unless you have players to replace them right now, and they are horrible), you will get money for the opening quicker than if you waited to graduate. dont be afraid to take 1-2 walkons during recruiting either, try to find guys you like, but if you struggle - dont compensate by sticking yourself with a guy who sucks for 4 years!!

i HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend to all new coaches, do NOT play fastbreak. it was the set at my first d3 school, and i was a really fast study, and still it threw me for a loop. the reality is your early period should be spent emulating good teams, not innovating on your own, to pick up the basics. all the offenses in HD except FB are similar, and few play FB, so its the one offense/defense i would recommend no rookie plays, ever. and i like fb - i switched all my teams to it, dont play anything else right now - but i hated it when i started. i probably would have played it years earlier if not scarred by my first experience with it :)
2/3/2013 2:19 PM
The defense ratings of all 6 of your recruits are, frankly,  too low.  If you cut them all, it'll be a slow build.  One option is to take the lessons you've learned and switch to another school.  But you can also take the same lessons and stay at Grove City. Ohio is a good state for recruiting. 

EVERY new coach struggles with this game. I had a new  team go 2-25 with a 24 game losing streak.  And, as I recently posted somewhere else, I had another  team with 5 players with Speed ratings of 1, and two of them were guards. 

I like the Wussy Wolverine nickname. My Drury team was so awful that I called them "Dreary' all season long
2/3/2013 2:30 PM (edited)
I looked at your team and there's no way I would continue with fastbreak/press.  Your players just don't support either one and I don't think they are as easy to craft a team around as a beginner coach.  Press requires good ATH and SPD and a deep bench.  I think a new coach has enough trouble getting a solid starting 5 much less a deep bench.

I think you will find most coaches would agree with a change, it's just what to go to?  Different opinions there but the great thing about that is that it also means none of the other options are wrong.  Look again at the Hoops 101 explanation of each offense and defense and once you choose one, then recruit accordingly.  Or look at what the successful coaches are doing and pick one of the basic options they are using.  Either way, it's where you want to be in 5 seasons, not where you are right now.  

Edit: just saw gillispie1's post after I sent this one.  He's 100% right about the walk-ons and it's something I don't think new coaches realize.  Lots of experienced coaches will take them every year and instead use the money for that scollie to help them get good players to fill the other 10-11 spots.  Even a "free player" you sign at the end of recruiting cost you money because that's a scholarship you won't get recruiting money for in the next 4 years.
2/3/2013 2:28 PM
Excellent advice, lizak....a good 5-year plan.  I've seen new coaches get discouraged too easily, with comments like  "I coach basketball in real life. I should be able to win at this game!"

That 2-25 team I mentioned?  By season #4, we were in the NT and defeated #1 teams twice in the regular season
2/3/2013 2:34 PM
Starting low is what makes the achievement all the better once you get there.  I can speak from experience on that one.
2/3/2013 2:51 PM
You guys have given me some AWESOME advice!!  I know now that my recruitment for Grove City was a disaster and if I continue there, I will grow even more frustrated and quit this game.

So I have decided to take all your good advice and move to the Allen world. I'm looking at  the Westminster team which has 9 seniors leaving and 3 freshmen. It could be a good start.  What are your thoughts?

2/3/2013 3:15 PM (edited)
I started as a new coach in Crum.  My team had 11 seniors so I only recruited one. THe next season, I added 7 more and took 4 walkons.  I added three more + one walkon for the 3rd season   In my 4th and 5th seasons, we were 27-5 and made the Sweet 16.  My first big group has graduated and now, with 5 freshmen, we're 14-5 and likely to be in the PIT.

Are you considering Westminster (MO) or Westminster (PA)?  Recruiting in Iowa, I can tell you that there aren't a lot of recruits in that area. But, you also have less competition for them.  Pennsylvania has tons of recruits but, also, a lot of schools looking at them.

If you're in an isolated area, secure the good locals guys first.  I then waited until the morning of signings, when I figured that most coaches had made their decisions, and recruited nationally. I found  decent players in Oregon, Washington and  Massachusetts that had been overlooked by coaches there. 

You're only allowed 6 players in a class (SIM teams are allowed more).  So, if you recruit a 7th player, he'll need to be an upperclassman.

This was good advice that I learned on the Forum. For DIII, reserve about $3,000 for each needed player. Don't overspend on FSS, but try to stay within that $3,000 threshhold.  You can always scout more states later on.

2/3/2013 3:13 PM (edited)
Westminster PA    But if you have any other teams, I'm all ears. HA

I'm from Western Pa, so that team popped.

2/3/2013 3:18 PM
Posted by luthien33 on 2/3/2013 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Westminster PA    But if you have any other teams, I'm all ears. HA

I'm from Western Pa, so that team popped.

spascity has been very successful at Westminster (PA), winning 4 national titles in Iba.  His current roster has 7 players from PA, VA, DE, and NY  
2/3/2013 3:25 PM
Are there any good forum posts on how to start a successful team?  Like how many states to recruit from?  What to look for in new recruits? 
2/3/2013 3:29 PM
Posted by luthien33 on 2/3/2013 3:25:00 PM (view original):
Are there any good forum posts on how to start a successful team?  Like how many states to recruit from?  What to look for in new recruits? 

"How to win at D2 and D3". I just bumped it to the top of the Forum list

2/3/2013 3:52 PM
Posted by alblack56 on 2/3/2013 3:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by luthien33 on 2/3/2013 3:25:00 PM (view original):
Are there any good forum posts on how to start a successful team?  Like how many states to recruit from?  What to look for in new recruits? 

"How to win at D2 and D3". I just bumped it to the top of the Forum list

This is a must read. Also check out the previous WIS HD interviews. lostmyth interview is a must read for anyone who wants to win. Create a set of reads in the myforum area. You can also follow coaches...which will give you tricks and different ways of looking at the game.
2/3/2013 4:06 PM
Posted by luthien33 on 2/3/2013 2:51:00 PM (view original):
You guys have given me some AWESOME advice!!  I know now that my recruitment for Grove City was a disaster and if I continue there, I will grow even more frustrated and quit this game.

So I have decided to take all your good advice and move to the Allen world. I'm looking at  the Westminster team which has 9 seniors leaving and 3 freshmen. It could be a good start.  What are your thoughts?

watch out - you only get $ for 6 shollies - you dont get 9 x as much so you will have lots of holes without extra money to fill them

you might want to find a school you like that has

a. 6 guys leaving

b. some okay guys on the roster

c. runs an offense/defense that you like

d. is in a conference that has some human coaches


2/3/2013 4:10 PM
Posted by mamxet on 2/3/2013 4:06:00 PM (view original):
Posted by luthien33 on 2/3/2013 2:51:00 PM (view original):
You guys have given me some AWESOME advice!!  I know now that my recruitment for Grove City was a disaster and if I continue there, I will grow even more frustrated and quit this game.

So I have decided to take all your good advice and move to the Allen world. I'm looking at  the Westminster team which has 9 seniors leaving and 3 freshmen. It could be a good start.  What are your thoughts?

watch out - you only get $ for 6 shollies - you dont get 9 x as much so you will have lots of holes without extra money to fill them

you might want to find a school you like that has

a. 6 guys leaving

b. some okay guys on the roster

c. runs an offense/defense that you like

d. is in a conference that has some human coaches


Good  points.  Although, if he doesn't intend to fill all 9 slots anyway, the money doesn't matter

Also, with only 3 guys returning, the returning  OFF/DEF doesn't really matter much. He can pick his own OFF/DEF
2/3/2013 4:31 PM (edited)
Posted by luthien33 on 2/3/2013 2:51:00 PM (view original):
You guys have given me some AWESOME advice!!  I know now that my recruitment for Grove City was a disaster and if I continue there, I will grow even more frustrated and quit this game.

So I have decided to take all your good advice and move to the Allen world. I'm looking at  the Westminster team which has 9 seniors leaving and 3 freshmen. It could be a good start.  What are your thoughts?

my thoughts are, definitely do not take this team.

handling a team with such an unusual class size is a challenge, one you could do without! you have to carefully balance things, and a single bad class when those 9 guys leave, is just brutal. plus, then you have a year with no upperclassmen (except any you recruit - again, more complication), and then another with no seniors. those are tough seasons. a veteran coach might take this situation and build for a great season in 4 seasons, knowing they are going to suffer along the way. but for a new coach, thats just about a worst case.

additionally, the most important process in this game is looking at what you've got, and adding the players you need (ideally, looking ahead a couple seasons). the best way to start to work on that is to have a normal class to recruit (2-6 players) every year, you will get the most practice that way. so, i'd find a team with fairly balanced classes - no classes with 0, no classes over 5, would be nice. ideally find one with some decent players - schools who had human coaches are often a good place to get started. that way you have something to work with, and aren't 100% depending on a great recruiting job. if you find a decent starting situation, you can recruit, hit some, miss some, and still do OK, start making the post season and stuff, that should make it a lot easier to ease in to the water :)

just a comment on my note about not worrying about a walkon here or there. its true that more advanced coaches do it all the time to have more money for recruiting, and theres a lot of strategy in that. but for a new coach, its doubly important - just take that pressure off yourself. theres no need to put so much emphasis on filling every spot every year, like most new coaches do. i think it ultimately hurts new coaches, because they focus on the wrong thing - having a full team - instead of simply, a good one. signing 3 good players with 4 openings is definitely a success, but a lot of people get too hung up on the 1. i mean, you cant push it too far - you still need to have like, 4 guards, 4 bigs, and 10 players total, or you start to get in trouble (technically, you can live with less than 10, but not a good idea for a new coach). but that means that you can shoot to have 12 guys, miss on 1 or 2, and still you are alright - thats a pretty good cushion.

this game can be a lot of fun, but its also fairly complicated/detailed, so as others have said, its best to just be patient, and enjoy the small successes along the way - a good recruit, a big win, that kind of stuff, not just an end-of-season result. if you focus on those little things along the way, you will get the hang of it soon enough.
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