All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Voter's giving up on the HOF.
12/29/2012 7:12 PM
This is certainly a troubling article but at least Quinn admits he isn't qualified to even vote and suggests the HOF revamp it's voting process.  He hasn't covered baseball since 2002!!!

espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8769398/a-writer-gives-hall-fame-vote

12/29/2012 7:24 PM
that is weak

ten years a baseball writer is the qualification, you've got the ten years, so vote

make a decision based on the merits and demerits of the players on the ballot

throwing up your hands and saying Oh  me oh my i don't know what to do

is weak

now if you're not a baseball fan and you don't watch it any more, fine, quit voting

but  if you still watch it and are still a fan

get off the fence, be an adult, make a decision, turn in your stinking ballot

you dithering piece
12/29/2012 7:43 PM
Meh.  If he covered baseball full-time in 2002, he saw the players on the ballot play. 
12/30/2012 10:45 AM
Those jokers should have taken the vote away from them a long time ago.  It is inscribed somewhere on stone tablets that they are the arbiter of greatness.  The most qualified group to vote would be a select committee of SABR
12/30/2012 11:07 AM
no. someone who watches games for ten years gets my vote over someone who reads stats for ten years
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12/30/2012 12:04 PM
Posted by bagchucker on 12/30/2012 11:07:00 AM (view original):
no. someone who watches games for ten years gets my vote over someone who reads stats for ten years
Agreed.   All that would lead to is some set-in-stone formula that determines HOF-worthiness.
12/30/2012 5:03 PM (edited)
A kwik glance @ the 2002 H0F-Ballot, shows Luis Tiant as (perhaps) the oldest
pitcher still not yet inducted, yet ---> taking an arbitrary span & landing in LTiant's
prime-&-fame, say maybe 1967, ---> well, take another glance @ the H0F-Ballot
from 1967, ---> & it will help to follow the long-running 'current' flaw in the voting...

( ...from1967, the following potential inductees appeared... )

JMize / JMedwick / RKiner / RCampanella / LBoudreau / AVaughan / TKluzewski
DNewcombe / BDoerr / ESlaughter / LDoby / ADark / GKell / CFurillo / PWReese
JGordon / PRizzuto / MMarion / BLemon / &, Billy's (both) Herman, & Martin...

10 years qualification as a sports (BB) writer, to vote (???)... 

If ya' ask me, NO WRITER (voter) should be less than 50 years of age... Was 10
years old (myself), watch'n black-&-white movies of kids in hospital beds, talk'n
to Gehrig, or Ruth... in 1967, there were 292 ballots count'd... 219 votes got U in...

Looking @ the last H0F-Ballot, & comparing it to 1967's ballot, & attending MLB
games since the late 1950's, & --->>> if myself had such an awesome privelege
to actually cast my vote, then what follows can only leave me scratching my skull
in 'dumb-founded-ness'... -->Bill Mueller ? / -->Brad Radke ? / -->Brian Jordan ? /
-->Tony Womack ? / -->Jeromy Burnitz ?...

Absolutely the 2 ballots, approximately 4 dozen years apart, have VAST contrasts
&, the latest doesn't resemble anything close to ANY definition of "Fame"... 

Absolutely, the BEST WAY to solve it all, ---&, create the most NON-controversial,
PERFECT "Hall-0f-Fame" that MLB has ever seen, ---would be to find the oldest
guy on the planet, a guy who witness'd way more than 4 dozen years of baseball,
& just let THAT man decide who goes in, ---each year, ---until he dies...

THAT man is Vin Scully... Whatever HE says is fine w/ me & everyone else, 4-sure.
  
12/30/2012 7:10 PM
12/30/2012 10:53 PM
I'm no member of SABR, but these guys are baseball researchers, writers of scholarly material, not just a bunch of stat heads.  Oh sure, there are some of those there, no doubt.  A select committee of SABR, scholars who have produced a portfolio of comprehensive in depth baseball research.  They would be much better than a bunch of scribblers for the local newspaper.  Watching the home team play makes someone an expert?  I would make the case that watching the home team for 10+ years gives one a perspective far too narrow to judge greatness compared to the whole.  Shoot, I would posit that a healthy percentage of people on this site own as much knowledge of the game as your typical newspaper scribbler.
1/1/2013 12:23 AM
If you think no one is worthy I could see not voting but don't vote just because is lame..
1/1/2013 1:54 AM
Posted by SpotSell on 12/30/2012 10:53:00 PM (view original):
I'm no member of SABR, but these guys are baseball researchers, writers of scholarly material, not just a bunch of stat heads.  Oh sure, there are some of those there, no doubt.  A select committee of SABR, scholars who have produced a portfolio of comprehensive in depth baseball research.  They would be much better than a bunch of scribblers for the local newspaper.  Watching the home team play makes someone an expert?  I would make the case that watching the home team for 10+ years gives one a perspective far too narrow to judge greatness compared to the whole.  Shoot, I would posit that a healthy percentage of people on this site own as much knowledge of the game as your typical newspaper scribbler.
You need a balance.

If you just let the stat nerds vote, as Mike said, you end up with a set "formula" for HOFers and then you don't need voting. You totally discount any non-statistical attributes or contributions.

If you only let those watching the games vote, perhaps you have a guy (like a Mattingly) get in because he was solid on the field, and extremely popular among fans.

You need a mix of both - or people who are smart enough to watch the games and analyze the stats. But if I had to choose one, I'd go with those who watched the games, because they can always go back and analyze the stats to go with their observations. You can't have a stat nerd go back in time to see a player play, how the fans reacted to him, how he helped his team on and off the field, etc.
1/1/2013 4:13 AM (edited)
E V O L U T I O N, ...man... (is it real, or not?)...

If it's "REAL" (?), --->>> then Vin Scully's amoeba ancestors, 4-fathers, or whatever,
all had to evolve from the "sponge" family-tree...

Since birth, --->>> Vinny-The-Sponge was destined to swim with Red Barber... &...
The math is simple, because Red Barber had also been around baseball longer
than petrified dirt... This is real, right (?)... Because if there wasn't petrified dirt (?)
Then where would the water recede to (?)... Hence, Vinny-The-Sponge emerged.

The debates here about the H0F seem like a 'merry-go-round' of evolution, ---&---
counter-evolution... Everyone has eyes, but more than 100 years of baseball has
been there all along, up & unto today... 

Since it's gonna' be contended here that MLB has to have MANY people yacking
about the merits of the H0F standards, ---it'll never end...

What's between the ears of 'Vin Scully/Red Barber' is the ONLY thing that baseball
was ever meant to be... They (Vinny) are the only 1's qualified to tell ANYONE of any
stories that relate to the game itself... They do it best... 

1 man (the Pope of baseball) --->>> 1 vote...

Not 292 men, & 219 votes... U can't accomplish 'squat' THAT way... It ain't evidence
of evolution... No way, man... 

1/1/2013 12:05 PM
Posted by ramonshaw on 1/1/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
If you think no one is worthy I could see not voting but don't vote just because is lame..
Not voting is not the same as casting a blank ballot. This writer not voting has the same effect on the final tallies as you or me. Casting a blank ballot would be actively voting for nobody.
1/1/2013 12:18 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/1/2013 1:55:00 AM (view original):
Posted by SpotSell on 12/30/2012 10:53:00 PM (view original):
I'm no member of SABR, but these guys are baseball researchers, writers of scholarly material, not just a bunch of stat heads.  Oh sure, there are some of those there, no doubt.  A select committee of SABR, scholars who have produced a portfolio of comprehensive in depth baseball research.  They would be much better than a bunch of scribblers for the local newspaper.  Watching the home team play makes someone an expert?  I would make the case that watching the home team for 10+ years gives one a perspective far too narrow to judge greatness compared to the whole.  Shoot, I would posit that a healthy percentage of people on this site own as much knowledge of the game as your typical newspaper scribbler.
You need a balance.

If you just let the stat nerds vote, as Mike said, you end up with a set "formula" for HOFers and then you don't need voting. You totally discount any non-statistical attributes or contributions.

If you only let those watching the games vote, perhaps you have a guy (like a Mattingly) get in because he was solid on the field, and extremely popular among fans.

You need a mix of both - or people who are smart enough to watch the games and analyze the stats. But if I had to choose one, I'd go with those who watched the games, because they can always go back and analyze the stats to go with their observations. You can't have a stat nerd go back in time to see a player play, how the fans reacted to him, how he helped his team on and off the field, etc.
Your decision is based on a caricature of the people you're talking about.

The beat writers watch 1/15th of the games played in any given season. So it's not as if they've seen all the players play a whole lot.

The typical SABR guy watches a ton of baseball as well, and therefore also has memories to refer to - probably a similar amount to the writer.

I wouldn't want a set formula either, but I think the stat guys actually have a better perspective than the writers.

But I would go for a mix as well - a select committee of writers, announcers, former players, researchers and executives.
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