All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Tim Raines HOF
12/20/2012 7:25 PM
Uh, no.

When they start removing players from the HOF, let me know.  I've got a list.

Maybe but neither of us have a vote.   As it stands, he's an admitted drug user.   On the diamond.
12/20/2012 7:26 PM
BTW, I present Las Vegas in gambling vs. drug use.   Which city was built around legalized drug use?
12/20/2012 7:59 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/20/2012 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Gambling is much worse (and therefore carries a much stiffer penalty) than drug use.

Hank Aaron (and literally thousands of other major leaguers) did illegal drugs in the clubhouse.

Tim Raines performance (just like Bonds and Clemens) merits inclusion in the Hall. Your selective outrage is amusing.
It's not selective.  Either let all of them in.

Or none.

Personally, I happen to think cocaine use is worse, but the sportswriters are using steroids to punish Bonds/Clemens for being ********.
12/20/2012 8:04 PM
Posted by toddcommish on 12/20/2012 7:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/20/2012 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Gambling is much worse (and therefore carries a much stiffer penalty) than drug use.

Hank Aaron (and literally thousands of other major leaguers) did illegal drugs in the clubhouse.

Tim Raines performance (just like Bonds and Clemens) merits inclusion in the Hall. Your selective outrage is amusing.
It's not selective.  Either let all of them in.

Or none.

Personally, I happen to think cocaine use is worse, but the sportswriters are using steroids to punish Bonds/Clemens for being ********.
I think we should let all suspected drug users in (assuming, of course, their performance merits it). As for Rose, I don't think he should be allowed in. Gambling provides an incentive to lose. That's far worse than taking drugs.
12/20/2012 8:09 PM
Fair enough.  I just think it's stupid the way that Bonds/Clemens are kept out of the HOF, but now there's a groundswell for Tim Raines, when he really can't carry Bonds' jock.
12/20/2012 8:37 PM
Bonds is arguably the best offensive player ever. Maybe three or four other players could carry his jock.
12/20/2012 9:48 PM
A couple of things first, to be clear where I stand:

I'd put Bonds, Clemens, McGwire and Sosa in, absolutely. I pretty much assume that everybody was doing something illegal, and those guys still managed to stand out as among the greatest players ever.

I would also put Raines in, for many of the reasons listed in the article. He's probably in the top 10 LFers of all time.

Now, as to Raines' cocaine use: a lot of people are arguing for the sake of arguing in this thread. Raines was addicted to cocaine during one season of his career - 1982, when he was a 22-year old with money to spend for the first time. This doesn't excuse it, but it certainly way different than Bonds getting jealous of McGwire and Sosa and deciding to 'roid up as a 35-36 year old.

During the season that he was taking cocaine, Raines went .277/.353/.369. In the half season before (his first), he went .304/.391/.438. At the end of 1982, he went to rehab to get cleaned up, and in 1983 he went .298/.393/.429.

Regardless of what you think about the potential benefits of cocaine use, it was clearly not performance enhancing for Raines. And his admission of drug use, along with sliding head first, were part of his recovery and trying to warn others about the dangers of addiction, and not glorifying drug use as some seem to think.

12/20/2012 10:23 PM
You seem to be taking a couple of huge leaps on his intentions, addiction and rehabilitation.

Steve Howe went to rehab a lot. 
12/21/2012 7:57 AM
I believe his story. I have no good reason not to.
12/21/2012 8:07 AM
Do you have good reason to believe it?

Do you generally take drug addicts at their word?   Steve Howe said he was clean several times.
12/21/2012 11:38 AM
I take the word of guys who have demonstrated that they have been clean for a long time. You don't need to. It's just my opinion.
12/21/2012 12:17 PM
I think this is veering off course a little. Unless someone is trying to make the argument that the use of a stimulant shows such a flaw in Raines' character that we should ignore his hall worthy career performance. Which would be an odd argument to make considering the precedent that has already been set.
12/21/2012 12:25 PM
Someone is saying that he admitted to using illegal drugs, on the field of play, before he was elected.    Not exactly sure which HOFer set that precedent.  Perhaps someone will enlighten us.
12/22/2012 10:10 PM
MikeT23, man I have no idea who you are or what you do for a living, but Jesus you have more common sense and the ability to verbalize it w/ the quickness than so many others.
As person who had been around sports / steroids for many years, your "opinions" and statements are very truthfull and on point w/ what actually happens to the body AND the mind of the athletes.

Folks, I'm not trying to blow anybody here, just dropping knowledge.... I am not saying all his posts are JohnGPF, but they are consistent AND truthfull.

My forum reads are @every other day, but when you toss out a reply I tend to check in............ 
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