11/7/2012 10:48 AM
The markets certainly seem happy.
11/7/2012 10:59 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/7/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 11/7/2012 9:56:00 AM (view original):
And the stock market opens up in the red this morning.

We're off to a roaring start.
Is the stock market a good indicator? Because it's up like 100% since Obama took office.
So the DOW plummeting nearly 300 points within the first 90 minutes of the market opening after Obama gets reelected doesn't mean anything?
11/7/2012 11:06 AM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/7/2012 10:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by sinverguenza on 11/7/2012 9:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bistiza on 11/7/2012 8:41:00 AM (view original):
Romney lost because he made stupid comments (see 47 percent) and didn't give more than lip service to the middle and lower classes of incomes, whose votes - much to his chagrin I'm sure - count just as much as a vote from a wealthy person. It's the one way in which those who aren't wealthy can stand on equal ground with those who are, and that is to vote down rich guys who favor policies for the wealthy.

The economic struggle is not Obama's fault, neither is high unemployment. Those things were there under Bush and were what helped him win so dominantly in 08. Change for the sake of change is NOT a smart policy, especially when that change says he has a plan but gives no information on how to implement it. When that change is a wealthy man without a clue, then it is a bad thing.

This comes from a guy (me) who was undecided until he took a good long look at how foolish Romney's stances were on key issues. This comes despite the fact that I lean more conservative, particularly on social and moral issues. I voted based on the economy (Obama actually is better for it in the long run), taxes (I don't want a wealthy man cutting taxes for the wealthy) and education (neither was great but Obama was better).

Obama was the clear less of two evils here, and I'm glad Romney wasn't able to buy the election the same way he bought his nomination. The people have spoken and they have said the wealthy and clueless are not the right choice.

romney wanted to maintain the federal income tax rate at 35% for people making over 250,000 dollars. that 35%, i can assure you, is substantially higher than you are paying, but cnn will never tell you that. obama will make that 39.6%, which is an additional 4.6% higher than you will ever come close to paying.

as a mexican national, it amazes me how little americans know about their own politics. but, i suppose it won't matter down the line. you see, we'll be third world countries together, and the world will follow russian, indian, chinese, and brazilian politics just as they once watched you drive your empire into the ground.
No one actually pays 35%.   Do you pay taxes in the USA?   It isn't very hard to get your tax rate down 10-15%.   

To pay the full tax rate you more or less need to be a renter, without kids and an idiot.
as i said, i don't live in the u.s. i've done substantial research on the u.s, tax code, however. once state, local, fica, and excise taxes are paid, you're right: that's not 35%. it's more like 50. 

the super-wealthy pay less with capital gains, shell corporations, and what have you. but when you look at the majority of people in that tax bracket (those gaining between 250-500: your doctors, small business owners, etc.), a lot of them are paying sticker price. they're the ones who really get cheated in the system. for medicine, you also have to add in medical malpractice. my brother is an orthopaedic surgeon in the midwest. in his state, the average malpractice insurance for an orthopod is a couple hundred thousand a year. as a consequence, your country is driving your best minds out of medicine and into other fields. you still have the best medicine in the world, but government is doing their best to sacrifice quality for quantity. but, hey, it's just your health- i wouldn't worry too much about it. 

so, who really gets screwed in this system? it's not the guy making 30k, or the guy making 30 mill; it's the guy at the lower end of the upper class who bears the country's burden. it's a shame that the majority has carte blanc to tyrannize the minority (can apply the same principle to gay marriage and victimless crimes like marijuana use).

i certainly hope libertarianism has a future in global politics. i'm not a religious man, but i'll bastardize a bible verse and say that the weak have inherited the earth, and now they're anxious for "revenge." 
11/7/2012 11:07 AM
No it doesn't.  Not a thing. 

But here's a good exercise for you: compare the performance of the major stock market indices under Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, and Obama - and tell us what you learn.  I think you might be surprised.
11/7/2012 11:19 AM (edited)
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/7/2012 10:32:00 AM (view original):
um, how have my taxes gone up?  You know, because they haven't.
Do you have kids?  Are you married?

Just off the top, January 1st, my taxes will rise by $1500+.

Do you use an FSA for your medical expenses (if you don't, you should).  If you spend more than $2500, your taxes are going up.

The medicine cabinet tax, the HSA withdrawal tax hike, and many others. 

Coming soon (likely):  since employers will be reporting their health care premium contribution for you, the way is paved for taxes to be implemented on those benefits as income.  This is your ultimate path to single-payer system, which Obama has been a supporter of all along.

Indirect effect of policies through ACA:

Do you use durable medical equipment (like a C-PAP)?  Providers' taxes went up --> 2.3% excise tax for equipment >$100. 

Is your insurance company REQUIRED to cover things it didn't before?  Mine is.  Premiums for the same coverage for my family have gone up 43% for 2013 over this year.

Yours may not have gone up for whatever reason, but I'm your basic middle class guy with a family and even though I got a reasonable raise, my buying power decreases dramatically and my taxes are going up.  Even more when the fiscal cliff comes.

"Not one dime if you make over under (oops, edit) $250K"


Preposterous.  Huge lie.  Huge.

11/7/2012 11:21 AM (edited)
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/7/2012 10:32:00 AM (view original):
um, how have my taxes gone up?  You know, because they haven't.
If you have high out-of-pocket medical expenses and contribute to a medical Flexible Spending Account (FSA) as part of your healthcare plan, the maximum contribution to a medical FSA is being reduced from $5,000 to $2,500 starting in 2013.  This is a direct consequence of Obamacare.  Which means that next year you will have an additional taxable income liability of up to $2,500.

That is taxes going up.  If not for you, then maybe for your neighbor.
11/7/2012 11:18 AM
Posted by silentpadna on 11/7/2012 11:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/7/2012 10:32:00 AM (view original):
um, how have my taxes gone up?  You know, because they haven't.
Do you have kids?  Are you married?

Just off the top, January 1st, my taxes will rise by $1500+.

Do you use an FSA for your medical expenses (if you don't, you should).  If you spend more than $2500, your taxes are going up.

The medicine cabinet tax, the HSA withdrawal tax hike, and many others. 

Coming soon (likely):  since employers will be reporting their health care premium contribution for you, the way is paved for taxes to be implemented on those benefits as income.  This is your ultimate path to single-payer system, which Obama has been a supporter of all along.

Indirect effect of policies through ACA:

Do you use durable medical equipment (like a C-PAP)?  Providers' taxes went up --> 2.3% excise tax for equipment >$100. 

Is your insurance company REQUIRED to cover things it didn't before?  Mine is.  Premiums for the same coverage for my family have gone up 43% for 2013 over this year.

Yours may not have gone up for whatever reason, but I'm your basic middle class guy with a family and even though I got a reasonable raise, my buying power decreases dramatically and my taxes are going up.  Even more when the fiscal cliff comes.

"Not one dime if you make over $250K"


Preposterous.  Huge lie.  Huge.

We have just started the enrollment period for my company's healthcare benefits.  A direct quote from the enrollment package:

"In 2013, medical plan premiums will increase 8.5 - 9.2%, depending on the coverage level and option selected."
11/7/2012 11:21 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 11/7/2012 11:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by silentpadna on 11/7/2012 11:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/7/2012 10:32:00 AM (view original):
um, how have my taxes gone up?  You know, because they haven't.
Do you have kids?  Are you married?

Just off the top, January 1st, my taxes will rise by $1500+.

Do you use an FSA for your medical expenses (if you don't, you should).  If you spend more than $2500, your taxes are going up.

The medicine cabinet tax, the HSA withdrawal tax hike, and many others. 

Coming soon (likely):  since employers will be reporting their health care premium contribution for you, the way is paved for taxes to be implemented on those benefits as income.  This is your ultimate path to single-payer system, which Obama has been a supporter of all along.

Indirect effect of policies through ACA:

Do you use durable medical equipment (like a C-PAP)?  Providers' taxes went up --> 2.3% excise tax for equipment >$100. 

Is your insurance company REQUIRED to cover things it didn't before?  Mine is.  Premiums for the same coverage for my family have gone up 43% for 2013 over this year.

Yours may not have gone up for whatever reason, but I'm your basic middle class guy with a family and even though I got a reasonable raise, my buying power decreases dramatically and my taxes are going up.  Even more when the fiscal cliff comes.

"Not one dime if you make over $250K"


Preposterous.  Huge lie.  Huge.

We have just started the enrollment period for my company's healthcare benefits.  A direct quote from the enrollment package:

"In 2013, medical plan premiums will increase 8.5 - 9.2%, depending on the coverage level and option selected."
Is that your share of the premium, or the overall premium?  Some companies hit their employees harder when this happens (i.e. they might increase their share of the burden by some percentage, and your share by more).
11/7/2012 11:30 AM
Most of those things (marriage penalty and child credits) are laws (or tax cuts) set to expire.  They are part of the "fiscal cliff".   If they happen (and to some extent they will, just not as much as you are posting) it's because of the compromise the two sides make in Congress.

I think your health care premimiums going up 43% is a little extreme and mine have gone up 10-20 pretty much every year since 2000.

I think your jump to single payer health care and taxation of employee health care contribution is a little hyberbolic.
11/7/2012 11:33 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 11/7/2012 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/7/2012 10:32:00 AM (view original):
um, how have my taxes gone up?  You know, because they haven't.
If you have high out-of-pocket medical expenses and contribute to a medical Flexible Spending Account (FSA) as part of your healthcare plan, the maximum contribution to a medical FSA is being reduced from $5,000 to $2,500 starting in 2013.  This is a direct consequence of Obamacare.  Which means that next year you will have an additional taxable income liability of up to $2,500.

That is taxes going up.  If not for you, then maybe for your neighbor.
For the very few people who actually end up spending between $2500-$5000 on their FSA, it means an increase in the $400 range.  Don't make it sound like it's a death blow to everyone.
11/7/2012 11:36 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 11/7/2012 11:00:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/7/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 11/7/2012 9:56:00 AM (view original):
And the stock market opens up in the red this morning.

We're off to a roaring start.
Is the stock market a good indicator? Because it's up like 100% since Obama took office.
So the DOW plummeting nearly 300 points within the first 90 minutes of the market opening after Obama gets reelected doesn't mean anything?
It's actually a result of problems in Europe. It's a coincidence.
11/7/2012 11:38 AM
Posted by jvford on 11/7/2012 11:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 11/7/2012 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/7/2012 10:32:00 AM (view original):
um, how have my taxes gone up?  You know, because they haven't.
If you have high out-of-pocket medical expenses and contribute to a medical Flexible Spending Account (FSA) as part of your healthcare plan, the maximum contribution to a medical FSA is being reduced from $5,000 to $2,500 starting in 2013.  This is a direct consequence of Obamacare.  Which means that next year you will have an additional taxable income liability of up to $2,500.

That is taxes going up.  If not for you, then maybe for your neighbor.
For the very few people who actually end up spending between $2500-$5000 on their FSA, it means an increase in the $400 range.  Don't make it sound like it's a death blow to everyone.
That's the fatal logic...A penny here a penny there....it doesn't count.  Right?


"Not one dime for anyone making less than $250K"

Anyone with special needs family members gets hit.




The AGI limit for medical deductions going from 7.5% to 10%.  Increases tax liability.

"Not one dime for anyone making less than $250K"



11/7/2012 11:40 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 11/7/2012 11:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by silentpadna on 11/7/2012 11:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/7/2012 10:32:00 AM (view original):
um, how have my taxes gone up?  You know, because they haven't.
Do you have kids?  Are you married?

Just off the top, January 1st, my taxes will rise by $1500+.

Do you use an FSA for your medical expenses (if you don't, you should).  If you spend more than $2500, your taxes are going up.

The medicine cabinet tax, the HSA withdrawal tax hike, and many others. 

Coming soon (likely):  since employers will be reporting their health care premium contribution for you, the way is paved for taxes to be implemented on those benefits as income.  This is your ultimate path to single-payer system, which Obama has been a supporter of all along.

Indirect effect of policies through ACA:

Do you use durable medical equipment (like a C-PAP)?  Providers' taxes went up --> 2.3% excise tax for equipment >$100. 

Is your insurance company REQUIRED to cover things it didn't before?  Mine is.  Premiums for the same coverage for my family have gone up 43% for 2013 over this year.

Yours may not have gone up for whatever reason, but I'm your basic middle class guy with a family and even though I got a reasonable raise, my buying power decreases dramatically and my taxes are going up.  Even more when the fiscal cliff comes.

"Not one dime if you make over $250K"


Preposterous.  Huge lie.  Huge.

We have just started the enrollment period for my company's healthcare benefits.  A direct quote from the enrollment package:

"In 2013, medical plan premiums will increase 8.5 - 9.2%, depending on the coverage level and option selected."
I'm the one that shops health coverage for my company.  Our (initial) rate increases the past 10 years: 

2003: 19.1
2004: 14.5
2005:  18.9
2006: 11.9
2007: 12.6
2008: 17.6
2009: 10.2
2010: 14.6
2011:  9.7
2012: 12.4

I said initial, because in several cases we switched carriers and/or adjusted the coverages. 
11/7/2012 11:40 AM
 5.629 trillion of debt when bush takes office
9.986 obama takes office (bush raises number 4.357 over 8 years, despite one of the nations worst catastrophes ever.)
4.993- what obama promises to reduce debt to by end of first term
16.211- where he actually takes the country to (an increase of 6.225 over  less than 4 years). where did that 6 trillion go? kenya? indonesia? the pockets of ford executives? dental work for michelle's vampire overbite? washington wizards tickets for joe biden? 

obama's per year rate of raising debt is 3.    yes, i said 3.     the number is 3...........times as much as bush did. 

denial is not a river in egypt; perhaps it's what springsteen should name his next album, if he really wants to get to the heart of americana.
11/7/2012 11:43 AM
Posted by silentpadna on 11/7/2012 11:38:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jvford on 11/7/2012 11:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 11/7/2012 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 11/7/2012 10:32:00 AM (view original):
um, how have my taxes gone up?  You know, because they haven't.
If you have high out-of-pocket medical expenses and contribute to a medical Flexible Spending Account (FSA) as part of your healthcare plan, the maximum contribution to a medical FSA is being reduced from $5,000 to $2,500 starting in 2013.  This is a direct consequence of Obamacare.  Which means that next year you will have an additional taxable income liability of up to $2,500.

That is taxes going up.  If not for you, then maybe for your neighbor.
For the very few people who actually end up spending between $2500-$5000 on their FSA, it means an increase in the $400 range.  Don't make it sound like it's a death blow to everyone.
That's the fatal logic...A penny here a penny there....it doesn't count.  Right?


"Not one dime for anyone making less than $250K"

Anyone with special needs family members gets hit.




The AGI limit for medical deductions going from 7.5% to 10%.  Increases tax liability.

"Not one dime for anyone making less than $250K"



No, it does count, of course.  I just think it's misleading to make it sound like it's a game changer for people.  Because it doesn't affect very many people at all.

And please explain to me how many people with health insurance hit the 7.5% deduction rate anyway?
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