11/19/2012 1:52 PM (edited)
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 12:14:00 PM (view original):
You're completely missing the point.

Swamp asked how could it be that the President was re-elected and that Congress essentially stayed the same with "everything that's going on."

Part of his "everything that's going on," was the debt/deficit.

My point is that the voters don't care about the debt and the deficit. Which is backed up by the results of this election and just about every election we've had for the last 40 years. The economy causes change, not the growing debt or a spending deficit.
re: voting results: to clarify further I would say mainly a large percentage of college students, those ages 18 to 25, Latinos and African Americans don't care about the debt or deficit.... when they should.
11/19/2012 1:52 PM
I think they are more concerned with the economy and their jobs.
11/19/2012 1:58 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
I think they are more concerned with the economy and their jobs.
they should be.... still.
11/19/2012 2:23 PM
It's amazing that people can only be concerned with one thing. 

Although, to be fair, college kids aren't concerned with much more than Friday's bash at Alpha Omega.
11/19/2012 2:44 PM
Posted by moy23 on 11/19/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
I think they are more concerned with the economy and their jobs.
they should be.... still.
True. Policies that make a significant dent in the deficit would be a drag on the economy.
11/19/2012 2:57 PM
Right.  Our government can only do one thing at a time.
11/19/2012 4:23 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 2:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 11/19/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
I think they are more concerned with the economy and their jobs.
they should be.... still.
True. Policies that make a significant dent in the deficit would be a drag on the economy.
This isnt accurate.

If the government showed a real interest in cutting debt and limiting the scope of government the economy would respond.

People would believe in the future and start buying instead of saving.

11/19/2012 4:58 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 11/19/2012 4:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 2:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 11/19/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
I think they are more concerned with the economy and their jobs.
they should be.... still.
True. Policies that make a significant dent in the deficit would be a drag on the economy.
This isnt accurate.

If the government showed a real interest in cutting debt and limiting the scope of government the economy would respond.

People would believe in the future and start buying instead of saving.

That's pie in the sky bulIshit. There is no magic level of debt that causes consumers and businesses to respond by buying stuff. That's obvious by looking at the country's history of debt. The amount of debt the government has does not influence demand. 
11/19/2012 6:05 PM
I think there's some truth in the "believe in the future" part.
11/19/2012 6:23 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/19/2012 6:05:00 PM (view original):
I think there's some truth in the "believe in the future" part.
It's called consumer confidence
11/19/2012 6:25 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 2:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 11/19/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
I think they are more concerned with the economy and their jobs.
they should be.... still.
True. Policies that make a significant dent in the deficit would be a drag on the economy.
What quantifies a significant dent?
11/19/2012 6:36 PM (edited)
Posted by moy23 on 11/19/2012 6:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/19/2012 6:05:00 PM (view original):
I think there's some truth in the "believe in the future" part.
It's called consumer confidence
Consumer confidence is based on an individual's financial well being, not the country's debt. I won't buy a new car if I'm worried about my job or have a ton of debt to service. Or, a business won't hire more employees and invest in new equipment if the employees and equipment they already have is being underutilized.

I'm not going to avoid buying things I want or need just because the government has debt. It has had debt for my entire life.
11/19/2012 6:37 PM
Posted by moy23 on 11/19/2012 6:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 2:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 11/19/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):
I think they are more concerned with the economy and their jobs.
they should be.... still.
True. Policies that make a significant dent in the deficit would be a drag on the economy.
What quantifies a significant dent?
It's a sliding scale. The bigger the cuts you make to reduce the deficit, the bigger the drag on the economy.
11/19/2012 6:52 PM
Not caring about the debt/deficit is absolute lunacy.  It's like not caring about making bad real estate loans to people who cannot repay.  For quite awhile it appeared like nothing was going to happen.

After all, why worry about the real estate market?  We needed for it to keep on going.  Why did it crash?  It was unsustainable.  Why will our debt/deficit matter?  Because it is unsustainable.

Just because a whole bunch of voters aren't concerned about it doesn't make it any less of an important issue.  It just shows a whole bunch of voters are ignorant of the effects of the deficit  The more the interest payments grow, the more tax revenue is required just to service the debt (let alone make a dent it paying it down), and the bigger drag on the economy the debt becomes.  And since you cannot begin to tax more than is already being spent, that drag will continue to grow until it swallows up the ability of the federal government to keep its promises and fulfill its constitutional duty.  Then the crash will be far bigger than anything we've seen in our lifetimes.  Why?  Because the only way out at that point will be to monetize the debt even more.  When your currency becomes almost worthless, how happy will you be when you had a few short-term prosperous years because you "didn't care about the debt/deficit"?

11/19/2012 8:23 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/19/2012 6:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 11/19/2012 6:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/19/2012 6:05:00 PM (view original):
I think there's some truth in the "believe in the future" part.
It's called consumer confidence
Consumer confidence is based on an individual's financial well being, not the country's debt. I won't buy a new car if I'm worried about my job or have a ton of debt to service. Or, a business won't hire more employees and invest in new equipment if the employees and equipment they already have is being underutilized.

I'm not going to avoid buying things I want or need just because the government has debt. It has had debt for my entire life.
you have an answer for everything - even when you are wrong. A county's debt plays a big role in consumer optimism for the future... which is confidence to a T. don't believe me look at the headlines of marketwatch today. when debt talks seem to be on track... the market goes up. when they don't, or the eurozone debt talks (another example) are stalling, the market declines. the market is an indicator of investor confidence... which is a big part of consumer confidence. this country has had debt all your life.... just not at as dangerous a level (to GDP) as it is today.... there is a difference.

i'm personally not buying things I want because the country has a ton of debt (with no plan) and I've seen what happens to countries that can't control spending.... Greece, Spain, etc. I told my wife a year ago to do the same for specifically that reason. I'm also not spending money on things I want because it's being fiscally responsible to save that money for a rainy day.... inevitably something will go wrong that will cost money to fix. that's life. I'd rather be prepared.

imo most wealthy believe, and it's my belief too, that one can never save enough. tax the wealthy more and I'll tell you what they will do... they will simply adjust their habits to spend less because saving money is more important to them than spending it. that's life too.
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