All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Real Opinions? Who Do You Vote For And Why?
11/5/2012 2:15 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 11/5/2012 2:05:00 PM (view original):
"And as I already said (if you'd actually read you'd know it) once the government has the money, it's their money, not yours. That means your rights to say what is done with it are severely limited, because it's not your money."

The Democratic candidate for Congress in my district seems to disagree with you.  Should you tell her that she's wrong, or should I?

Stop Social Security privatization.  I also staunchly oppose any attempt to privatize or cut Social Security benefits.  So many of our seniors depend on Social Security just to survive, and for others it is a critical element of their retirement plan.  It’s their money, and they earned it.

As much as I disagree with bistiza and wish he would just stop, I think he's talking about tax revenue, not social security. They are different.

11/5/2012 2:19 PM

Stop Social Security privatization.  I also staunchly oppose any attempt to privatize or cut Social Security benefits.  So many of our seniors depend on Social Security just to survive, and for others it is a critical element of their retirement plan.  It’s their money, and they earned it.

First, I was discussing tax money, which is different.

Second, social security needs an overhaul to make sure it will be there for those who aren't already retired or close to retirement. The last thing we need is people paying in their whole lives only to get there and find it's gone (or partially gone).

11/5/2012 2:20 PM
?As much as I disagree with bistiza and wish he would just stop, I think he's talking about tax revenue, not social security. They are different.

I may disagree with people, but I never want them to stop having open discussion as long as its friendly and reasonable.
11/5/2012 2:23 PM (edited)
Posted by bistiza on 11/5/2012 1:54:00 PM (view original):
I'll repeat that the government is using money forcible taken from me to fund these programs.    That give me the right to judge how that money is being used.

And as I already said (if you'd actually read you'd know it) once the government has the money, it's their money, not yours. That means your rights to say what is done with it are severely limited, because it's not your money.

If you have a problem with how it's being used, tell the government and/or vote new leaders to be in charge in the government. Don't attack the people who are doing nothing legally wrong.
I can tell you many people of all incomes would like a professional to tell them the best ways to save money.... unfortunately many don't like to take the advice because it's not easy to be fiscally responsible.
 
Perhaps a lot of people would like to have sound financial advice from a professional. However, I doubt most of those who can barely afford their rent and utilities and food and can only scrape by through their food stamp card want you standing in the grocery store and telling them they aren't allowed to purchase the cigarettes they are desperately trying to quit but can't because they're addicted. I doubt those people want you telling them how horrible you think they are for making their purchases. 

For some people, it doesn't matter how fiscally responsible they could try to be, even with your help or the help of others. If the bills for simple necessities in life are far more than the income, you can only stretch the ends so far and when they still don't meet there is a problem. Yet someone with an overly judgmental attitude would simply say "their situation is their own fault" which may also be untrue.

 
I never once said they are horrible people. only that they are probably making some poor choices that I can help with.

you are right, I can't help everyone. some are dug in pretty deep and at this point in life are stuck (high meds, old age, low income).... and some don't have the means to work (mentally handicapped, disabilities). but there are the vast majority that need to change their underlying behaviors before they can improve their quality of life. it doesn't take a lot of income... it takes the desire to educate yourself and the discipline to follow through. simply avoiding $300 a month in bank fees would be a good start. JMO.
11/5/2012 2:27 PM
I'm not sure specifically what you mean by "avoiding $300 a month in bank fees".

However, I know there are a lot of companies who specialize in exploiting the poor, including to name a few: payday loan service companies, "rental" companies who charge a fortune to pay for a product over time, and credit card companies with exorbitant interest rates.

Once someone has been suckered into providing business to one or more of these types of companies, it can only lead to their financial ruin.

11/5/2012 2:30 PM
There's a reason some of these people are poor.  They have no clue how to manage their money/resources and their lifestyle.

If you give a man a fish (or a welfare check), you feed him for a day.  If you teach him to fish (or get a job), you feed him for a lifetime IF HE'S WILLING TO LEARN AND WILLING TO WORK.  If he's a lazy SOB, he'll be happy with the welfare check for doing nothing.
11/5/2012 2:47 PM (edited)
Posted by bistiza on 11/5/2012 2:27:00 PM (view original):
I'm not sure specifically what you mean by "avoiding $300 a month in bank fees".

However, I know there are a lot of companies who specialize in exploiting the poor, including to name a few: payday loan service companies, "rental" companies who charge a fortune to pay for a product over time, and credit card companies with exorbitant interest rates.

Once someone has been suckered into providing business to one or more of these types of companies, it can only lead to their financial ruin.

typically overdraft fees caused from most commonly payday loans (auto debiting their accounts) which I agree those companies are absolute vultures and imo totally unethical. my job was to teach these people how to avoid that, and with discipline there are ways. sometimes I win sometimes I don't. back to rights... it's my right to tell them, theirs to listen or not. again... it's not easy, and it doesn't happen overnight, but they can improve their quality of life without a ton of income if they are willing.
11/5/2012 2:45 PM
Posted by bistiza on 11/5/2012 2:19:00 PM (view original):

Stop Social Security privatization.  I also staunchly oppose any attempt to privatize or cut Social Security benefits.  So many of our seniors depend on Social Security just to survive, and for others it is a critical element of their retirement plan.  It’s their money, and they earned it.

First, I was discussing tax money, which is different.

Second, social security needs an overhaul to make sure it will be there for those who aren't already retired or close to retirement. The last thing we need is people paying in their whole lives only to get there and find it's gone (or partially gone).

Social security is funded by a tax.  According to you, once you pay tax money to the government, it's theirs to do whatever they want.
11/5/2012 4:19 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 11/5/2012 2:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bistiza on 11/5/2012 2:19:00 PM (view original):

Stop Social Security privatization.  I also staunchly oppose any attempt to privatize or cut Social Security benefits.  So many of our seniors depend on Social Security just to survive, and for others it is a critical element of their retirement plan.  It’s their money, and they earned it.

First, I was discussing tax money, which is different.

Second, social security needs an overhaul to make sure it will be there for those who aren't already retired or close to retirement. The last thing we need is people paying in their whole lives only to get there and find it's gone (or partially gone).

Social security is funded by a tax.  According to you, once you pay tax money to the government, it's theirs to do whatever they want.

It's NOT their money and they did NOT earn it.  That's the big lie.  It is funded by a tax, but what it is is a transfer without goods or services exchanged.  It is a ponzi scheme.  The only legal one there is.  It is a social contract that cannot possibly last the way it is structured now. 

I will be 50 in March.  SSI will most likely not be there in its present form when I am eligible if it's even there at all, and suddenly it looks a lot closer than it did just a few years ago.  All SSI is is a transfer of wealth from workers to retirees.  Nothing else.  I'm not paying money into the system that I will get back.  The contract is simply structured right now for me to start collecting money from workers when I am "eligible".  I didn't earn it any more than the original recipients did.  Calling it an earned entitlement simply obfuscates what the program actually is and makes it sound better.

It was a wealth transfer program when it started and it's a wealth transfer program now. 

Social Security privatization is not about "cutting benefits".  If it really was "my money" that "I am earning", I'd say privatize it right now.   Let me choose where the money goes.  I'll make it "grow" far better than what it supposedly does now with just about zero risk.  A money market fund outperforms the "growth" of your SSI "contributions".

11/6/2012 8:37 AM
back to rights... it's my right to tell them, theirs to listen or not.

It's your right to have an opinion, and to voice it if you want. It's also your right to go into a neighborhood of a race that isn't your own and start screaming out racial slurs, but that obviously wouldn't be a wise move. I would say the same is true of trying to give others unwanted advice about how they spend their money.
Social security is funded by a tax.  According to you, once you pay tax money to the government, it's theirs to do whatever they want.

Social Security has its own separate "tax" to fund it, so it's a separate issue.

As for tax money, I'm advocating people take a less stressful approach and stop viewing it as "MY" money once its out of their hands, because they don't have ultimate control over it any longer. You can be vigilant about how it is spent, and in many cases that's wise, but other than telling government officials or voting out those who make decisions you disagree with, you don't have power over how that money is spent in most cases. So there is simply no reason to think of it as "MY" money, as all that will do is cause you added stress when it ultimately isn't spent exactly how you would spend it if it actually WERE your money.

Honestly, I think some people actively look for situations where they can add stress to their lives. As for myself, I'm the opposite. I try not to worry about things I can't control - like exactly how my tax dollars are spent. Sometimes I worry anyway, but I do my best not to do so.
Social Security privatization is not about "cutting benefits".  If it really was "my money" that "I am earning", I'd say privatize it right now.   Let me choose where the money goes. 

I agree with this 100 percent. Everyone should have the option of continuing to fund social security or putting the same money into their own retirement account. The reason the government won't let this happen is because nearly everyone with any sense, especially those under 50 or so, would immediately stop paying into social security, and then the old people would whine and complain and by golly we can't have that. *rolls eyes*
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