Previous coach promised minutes? - Page 5 - Hoops Dynasty

Posts: 3022 (0)

Hall of Famer

40 50 11 185 15

Prospect

gillespie1,

You're entiteled to your opinion, of course, but I've learned a great deal from this thread and don't think it's "horrible" at all.

ars,

The player in question had dropped 18 points in WE the last time I checked (which wasn't recently) and had an initial drop of 14 points. Granted he was above 90 to begin with, but that's still a signficant drop.

Not that I care that much in the end, because even if he transfers, it won't be a big deal. I'll just recruit a freshman who by the time he is a junior will be better anyway.

reddyred,

I understand what you're saying about players being prima donnas. I just don't want them on my team, and would like to see a way to avoid it in the sim the same way I would avoid it in real life.

There are plenty of good players who are "die hard team", as you say. They work hard for the goals of the team, no matter what. Some of them are even star players for their teams. The one that comes to mind instantly is Shane Battier when he was at Duke, but I"m sure there are hundreds more I can't think of or more likley have never heard of.

emy1013,

Your presence has reminded me of your last line, which also makes me question if dahsdebater and gillespie1 aren't one and the same. Both seem to have made unnecessarily negative comments for no apparent reason during this thread. Perhaps I should avoid conversation with both unless they can discuss things decently, lest I find myself "feeding the troll".

8/29/2012 2:18 PM

bistiza

Posts: 3022 (0)

Hall of Famer

40 50 11 185 15

Prospect

dahs,

At the risk of "feeding the troll" as emy has said...

In real life, most people aren't good people who do what they should - but there are some who do.

THAT is why it's unrealistic to have every single player be a prima donna crybaby who will complain or transfer if he doesn't get minutes or whatever else he wants.

8/29/2012 2:22 PM

buddhagamer

Posts: 3710 (0)

Hall of Famer

466 215 98

Pro

Posted by bistiza on 8/29/2012 2:22:00 PM (view original):
dahs,

At the risk of "feeding the troll" as emy has said...

In real life, most people aren't good people who do what they should - but there are some who do.

THAT is why it's unrealistic to have every single player be a prima donna crybaby who will complain or transfer if he doesn't get minutes or whatever else he wants.

In real-life, most people have expectations and if those expectations aren't met, they usually have some type of response... most of us aren't robots. If you have a job and you see your boss take your work and throw it in the garbage can, are you saying you would continue to operate at 100% and not care? Would you not question him and ask why he did it and would he continue to do it in the future?

Being a prima donna would be just up and quitting (in HD terms, transferring) or just sitting on your hands in protest. I'm pretty sure almost nobody would be saying to themselves if I just keep handing in my work, he surely won't keep throwing it in the trash can right?

You did have the option to completely cut every upperclassman when you signed up with no repurcusions (other than having to recruit more players with the same amount of money) so if your intention wasn't to play the player EVER then you should of cut him right away... WIS doesn't have to do anything for you that you can't do yourself.

8/29/2012 2:35 PM

metsmax

Posts: 1590 (0)

Hall of Famer

5 2 807 2

Pro

Posted by bistiza on 8/29/2012 2:22:00 PM (view original):
dahs,

At the risk of "feeding the troll" as emy has said...

In real life, most people aren't good people who do what they should - but there are some who do.

THAT is why it's unrealistic to have every single player be a prima donna crybaby who will complain or transfer if he doesn't get minutes or whatever else he wants.

would you be happier if players who were disappointed in their minutes just had a small WE reduction and did not "complain"? because this isnt real life and we dont often get to see our players in person, the game needs to include the "complaining" message so the coach is alerted to an issue.

In real life, the coach would notice that a player is dogging it, not working as hard in practice or whatever. In this game, we get the message to make the game more playable.

If you put aside the message and any personal offense some thin skinned coaches may imagine they feel when they get the complaint message, the reduced WE is a reasonable representation of human behavior. On the other hand, I would share the view that more variation in those expectations and WE behavior would be fun. More texture.

But if you think of the message as an accomodation to an imaginary game, it isnt as offensive as it might be in real life.

8/29/2012 2:45 PM

emy1013

Posts: 2731 (0)

Hall of Famer

828

Prospect

Posted by dahsdebater on 8/29/2012 2:13:00 PM (view original):
I think bistiza actually doesn't realize he's the troll. That's hilarious...

No Dahs, I really don't think he gets it.

8/29/2012 2:54 PM (edited)

bistiza

Posts: 3022 (0)

Hall of Famer

40 50 11 185 15

Prospect

budd,

Sure, people learn to expect certain things and don't always react well if they don't receive those things. However, a respectable person will always use the opportunity to learn and take the high road by continuing to strive on rather than giving in or giving up.

Sure, you'd question anyone who just threw your work away. There is a world of difference between questioning someone and making an active decision not to do your job at all or to do it less than you should.

I don't take personal offense to what a simulated player does.

I simply expect to be able to be in control of a team where I am supposed to be the coach. Part of that control is the ability to play who I want, when I want. I shouldn't have to deal with a prima donna player when I wouldn't do it in real life.

gillespie1,

You're suggesting the game can't account for all the little factors affecting player decisions in real life, and I AGREE with you. That's EXACTLY why none of the player should be prima donnas and demand minutes in the first place - because it's something that can't be compensated for in an appropriate manner.

My junior player has lost 20 work ethic points as of my last check earlier today, not five points. That's a BIG drop because he averages five MPG instead of ten.

emy1013,

You say *I* am the troll? That's patently absurd.

I'm trying to have a legitimate discussion.

If anyone is being a "troll" and is here just to argue, it is those who have hurled insults and negative comments which are completely unnecessary.

Or maybe you're trying to start an argument yourself. Well, this is the last you'll get from me about that. Call whoever a troll all day for all I care. If it's not about the topic, I'm not responding to you.

8/29/2012 3:27 PM

shaf

Posts: 24 (0)

Hall of Famer

50 3 1

Prospect

This thread is fantastic and extremely entertaining... love green walls on Mars thing, gill. Sorry for the interruption, carry on your crusade to nowhere bistiza

8/29/2012 3:49 PM

metsmax

Posts: 1590 (0)

Hall of Famer

5 2 807 2

Pro

green walls on Mars? are you f ing kidding

8/29/2012 4:05 PM

llamanunts

Posts: 1498 (0)

Hall of Famer

29 95

Hall of Famer

Here's the thing...

I simply expect to be able to be in control of a team where I am supposed to be the coach.

You are.

Part of that control is the ability to play who I want, when I want.

You can.

I shouldn't have to deal with a prima donna player when I wouldn't do it in real life.

You should. At least until he's off the team - and his presence on the team is under your control.

If you truly believe you should be able to ignore reality and proceed along an entirely discredited path without consequences... well I'm sure there's a credential in Tampa with your name on it.

8/29/2012 4:07 PM

bistiza

Posts: 3022 (0)

Hall of Famer

40 50 11 185 15

Prospect

shaf,

Glad you find the thread entertaining, but I hope you haven't missed the point of the thread. If you did, well, then at least you found some entertainment in the thread.

There is no crusade, much less one to nowhere. I'm just getting some answers and opinions on a feature of the game.

llamanunts,

What I want is the ability to know if a guy will be a prima donna BEFORE he's on my team, because he sure wouldnt' be there now if I had known.

I should be able to recruit and have players who aren't prima donnas. THAT is reality.

If the sim doesn't produce that, I have to live with it if I want to play the game. I'd rather only recruit players who are not prima donnas, but since I can't do that, I'll make a request of WIS to include that feature should they ever make an update.

However, that does NOT mean it's an absurd request to make or somehow outside of the realm of realism, as you seem to suggest. REALITY is that not everyone is a prima donna, which should be reflected in the sim.

8/29/2012 4:31 PM

coach_billyg

Posts: 2072 (0)

Hall of Famer

92

Pro

ill play devils advocate a second. the reality is that most, not everyone, is a prima donna. you say it should be reflected in the sim. i say it is. your player is probably not a big enough prima donna to transfer. some players are. most players are at least a little prima donnaish, if you will, so most players lose some work ethic. some lose more than others. and then some will quit on you. realistic enough?

know that we are basically with you, up until you answer that question NO, and then when you suggest WIS should spend all this time and money adding crap that nobody (present company excluded) gives a crap about... thats when people start to think you are crazy. not saying you are crazy, and no offense intended, but thats the lay of the land... may as well accept it!

8/29/2012 4:37 PM

buddhagamer

Posts: 3710 (0)

Hall of Famer

466 215 98

Pro

Actually then, I think the OP is against EEs entirely because technically those players are basing their decisions that benefits them the most and not about helping the team and giving his coach 100%. Which implies in his reality, 5 stars would gladly ride the pine til their senior season and be happy to just be a part of the team regardless of what their coach told them.

8/29/2012 6:56 PM

reddyred

Posts: 230 (0)

Hall of Famer

46

Prospect

Posted by bistiza on 8/29/2012 2:18:00 PM (view original):
gillespie1,

You're entiteled to your opinion, of course, but I've learned a great deal from this thread and don't think it's "horrible" at all.

ars,

The player in question had dropped 18 points in WE the last time I checked (which wasn't recently) and had an initial drop of 14 points. Granted he was above 90 to begin with, but that's still a signficant drop.

Not that I care that much in the end, because even if he transfers, it won't be a big deal. I'll just recruit a freshman who by the time he is a junior will be better anyway.

reddyred,

I understand what you're saying about players being prima donnas. I just don't want them on my team, and would like to see a way to avoid it in the sim the same way I would avoid it in real life.

There are plenty of good players who are "die hard team", as you say. They work hard for the goals of the team, no matter what. Some of them are even star players for their teams. The one that comes to mind instantly is Shane Battier when he was at Duke, but I"m sure there are hundreds more I can't think of or more likley have never heard of.

emy1013,

Your presence has reminded me of your last line, which also makes me question if dahsdebater and gillespie1 aren't one and the same. Both seem to have made unnecessarily negative comments for no apparent reason during this thread. Perhaps I should avoid conversation with both unless they can discuss things decently, lest I find myself "feeding the troll".

Do you believe that the great Shane battier would ever be ok with averaging 5 mpg as an upperclassman? He may be die hard team but he transfers in a heartbeat if he's ever in that situation. At the end of the day all good ball players of that caliber die hard team or not have to do what's best for them.

8/29/2012 7:19 PM

bistiza

Posts: 3022 (0)

Hall of Famer

40 50 11 185 15

Prospect

No, Battier wouldn't be playing 5 mpg as a junior or senior (and didn't, at least as I recall).

However, there is a huge difference between Battier and my player. Battier is a DI superstar who ended up in the NBA with a decent career so far.

My guy is a DIII player who is decent but not so good that his coach isn't willing to make him a third-stringer even as a junior. That kind of player, who basically has enough talent to play on a moderate to good DIII team and nothing more, shouldn't be a prima donna in my humble opinion. He absolutely should be glad to be on the team at all.

Now if he thinks he can catch on as a senior with someone who will actually want to play him more, he can feel free to transfer. If he were real, I'd tell him to keep in mind he'll be getting significant minutes and possibly be a starter (at least sometimes) as a senior if he stays, but if he goes, then it's not a big deal either.

8/29/2012 7:51 PM

rednation58

Posts: 630 (0)

Hall of Famer

53

Rookie

Maybe there is a big difference here, but you used Shane as your example of your ideal player. I guess the major point here is roster management is just a part of the game and you can always cut the guy because at the other end of the spectrum, you wanting to know if the player is a prima donna is not something you could readily identify 100% of the time anyway. You can interview a recruit all day and still not know something like that 100% of the time. So that being said and this being only a simulation, an all inclusive standard is set concerning WE for these recruits. Its as realistic as actually knowing every detail about a player's mentality is. Neither of the extremes are more realistic than the other.

8/29/2012 8:19 PM

Forums

Previous coach promised minutes? Topic

Search Criteria