really? you continue to amaze. every time i lower my opinion of you, you scream, ITS NOT LOW ENOUGH YET!! after your child-like insistence on everyone "agreeing to disagree" (is this kindergarden? i thought people here were adults, not five year olds), you won't even do it now? what a joke. you are a joke, and not in the haha funny sort of way.

Posted by rednation58 on 9/7/2012 2:34:00 PM (view original):
If we are talking about making a specific kid run laps, say for instance your C who is a JR and tanking in WE, why would his WE increase? He already isn't getting the court time he feels he should get on top of now having to run laps because he's not happy with the direction the program is going. One aspect I don't believe you equate in your theory here is that sometimes guys don't realize they are actually a worse player than who is in front of them. Of course it's obvious with the standouts, the stars, blue chip athletes who just can flat out play, but if you're starting players over a guy because they have more "potential" for growth than this upperclassmen, as a coach you can see this but as a player it would absolutely boggle their mind at the present time.

Making this type of player run extra laps would only serve to expedite his exit from your team. The player is required to give more and gain nothing. From a players point of view this would not work. I've seen plenty of people quit after being punished by the coach... If you make one player run extra laps, you effectively make that player the black sheep of the team. To gain any positive WE from a single player... you'd effectively have to punish the entire team for one players lack of desire. In the military everyone is punished for the mistake of one because they operate as a single unit. The same process is generally used in team sports.

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 3:05:00 PM (view original):

really? you continue to amaze. every time i lower my opinion of you, you scream, ITS NOT LOW ENOUGH YET!! after your child-like insistence on everyone "agreeing to disagree" (is this kindergarden? i thought people here were adults, not five year olds), you won't even do it now? what a joke. you are a joke, and not in the haha funny sort of way.

Let's be clear on a few of things:

First, I don't much care what your opinion is of me. I'm not here to win a popularity contest, nor am I here to impress you personally. I'm here to have a discussion about aspects of the game. If you're willing to hate me because you disagree with what I have to say, that's YOUR PROBLEM, and I'm not going to waste my time bothering with it. This is about HD, which is a GAME and we're merely discussing it - maybe you should relax and not take this stuff so seriously as to lower your opinion of people as a result of it.

Second, I asked people to "agree to disagree" because the unnecessary stuff - personal attacks, namecalling, insult hurling, attempts to bully others etc. - was at a ridiculous level. These are the things that actually ARE childish.  I find it to be very sad that while you're willing to tolerate and perhaps even participate in that kind of horrid behavior, you would get things 100% backward and actually call someone childish for attempting to stop it and asking everyone to "agree to disagree".

Third, I can "agree to disagree" on a great many things, but I won't do it when it's clear the other person doesn't really have a position, as they have nothing to offer to support their position and just want to throw it out there without even trying. I'll give them a fair chance to show they have something of substance to defend their position in case I"m wrong, but if they can't or won't do that, then there's no need to "agree to disagree" with a position that doesn't even actually exist. You can't agree, disagree, or even "agree to disagree" unless there's an actual case being made for another position.

rednation,

Using my player as an example, a feature allowing me to have him "run laps" (or whatever you want to call it) could have been instituted as soon as he sent me the email saying he wasn't happy and his WE started to drop a point or two.

Sure, he's not happy with the amount of time he gets on the court, but he's even less happy with having to run laps. So in order to keep from having to run laps, he'll make sure to give a better effort in practice and when he does get to play.

As for the direction the program is going, he has no reason to be unhappy about that.

If you want to implement a feature where the entire team can run laps to keep WE up, that's fine too. Put it up with the practice time for the various basketball IQs then.

Just give me some way to have ultimate control over my team the way I'm supposed to in this game.

Third, I can "agree to disagree" on a great many things, but I won't do it when it's clear the other person doesn't really have a position, as they have nothing to offer to support their position and just want to throw it out there without even trying. I'll give them a fair chance to show they have something of substance to defend their position in case I"m wrong, but if they can't or won't do that, then there's no need to "agree to disagree" with a position that doesn't even actually exist. You can't agree, disagree, or even "agree to disagree" unless there's an actual case being made for another position.

Posted by angmar on 9/7/2012 1:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
angmar,

Yes, some people are like the person you mention. They get frustrated when they don't get what they want and they take it out on others. They stop working very hard, or they make demands, or they just quit.

From everything I've seen, those types of people are the exception rather than the rule. Most people don't quit at something if they don't get whatever they want.

Even people who want to do this usually don't because there are often consequences they'd rather avoid.

If you think otherwise, perhaps you should suggest to the person you mention that he should go to his boss and demand an immediately effective raise to double what he presently makes and make it known if that doesn't happen he'll either work very lazily or quit altogether. 

Umm, yeah, we both work for the Feds under a structured salary system, so going to our boss and demanding a raise wouldn't quite work anyway, but nice try.

I'm just not quite understanding the logic behind how "punishing" someone (running laps) is supposed to RAISE a person's work ethic.  Damn near EVERY person I've EVER known from my kid all the way through the military and up to and including this Fed job gets ****** when they get punished, not motivated.  I'm going to have to disagree and say YOUR guy is the exception to the rule.

Someone getting motivated when they get punished, ha ha  **rolls eyes**.  Talk about living in a dream world.  I sincerely hope that you don't supervise people wherever you work because if you do I could honestly see some of them going postal after listening to your rah, rah "motivational" speeches  **rolls eyes yet again**.  Have to agree with Gill, if that's what you've "seen", you've "seen" a very, very limited amount of the REAL world **rolls eyes a third time**.

+1

"I'm just not quite understanding the logic behind how "punishing" someone (running laps) is supposed to RAISE a person's work ethic. Damn near EVERY person I've EVER known from my kid all the way through the military and up to and including this Fed job gets ****** when they get punished, not motivated. I'm going to have to disagree and say YOUR guy is the exception to the rule."

Well said angmar. 

 

If you're willing to hate me because you disagree with what I have to say...

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 3:05:00 PM (view original):

really? you continue to amaze. every time i lower my opinion of you, you scream, ITS NOT LOW ENOUGH YET!! after your child-like insistence on everyone "agreeing to disagree" (is this kindergarden? i thought people here were adults, not five year olds), you won't even do it now? what a joke. you are a joke, and not in the haha funny sort of way.

Let's be clear on a few of things:

First, I don't much care what your opinion is of me. I'm not here to win a popularity contest, nor am I here to impress you personally. I'm here to have a discussion about aspects of the game. If you're willing to hate me because you disagree with what I have to say, that's YOUR PROBLEM, and I'm not going to waste my time bothering with it. This is about HD, which is a GAME and we're merely discussing it - maybe you should relax and not take this stuff so seriously as to lower your opinion of people as a result of it.

Second, I asked people to "agree to disagree" because the unnecessary stuff - personal attacks, namecalling, insult hurling, attempts to bully others etc. - was at a ridiculous level. These are the things that actually ARE childish.  I find it to be very sad that while you're willing to tolerate and perhaps even participate in that kind of horrid behavior, you would get things 100% backward and actually call someone childish for attempting to stop it and asking everyone to "agree to disagree".

Third, I can "agree to disagree" on a great many things, but I won't do it when it's clear the other person doesn't really have a position, as they have nothing to offer to support their position and just want to throw it out there without even trying. I'll give them a fair chance to show they have something of substance to defend their position in case I"m wrong, but if they can't or won't do that, then there's no need to "agree to disagree" with a position that doesn't even actually exist. You can't agree, disagree, or even "agree to disagree" unless there's an actual case being made for another position.

rednation,

Using my player as an example, a feature allowing me to have him "run laps" (or whatever you want to call it) could have been instituted as soon as he sent me the email saying he wasn't happy and his WE started to drop a point or two.

Sure, he's not happy with the amount of time he gets on the court, but he's even less happy with having to run laps. So in order to keep from having to run laps, he'll make sure to give a better effort in practice and when he does get to play.

As for the direction the program is going, he has no reason to be unhappy about that.

If you want to implement a feature where the entire team can run laps to keep WE up, that's fine too. Put it up with the practice time for the various basketball IQs then.

Just give me some way to have ultimate control over my team the way I'm supposed to in this game.

Posted by p6453 on 9/7/2012 3:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by angmar on 9/7/2012 1:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
angmar,

Yes, some people are like the person you mention. They get frustrated when they don't get what they want and they take it out on others. They stop working very hard, or they make demands, or they just quit.

From everything I've seen, those types of people are the exception rather than the rule. Most people don't quit at something if they don't get whatever they want.

Even people who want to do this usually don't because there are often consequences they'd rather avoid.

If you think otherwise, perhaps you should suggest to the person you mention that he should go to his boss and demand an immediately effective raise to double what he presently makes and make it known if that doesn't happen he'll either work very lazily or quit altogether. 

Umm, yeah, we both work for the Feds under a structured salary system, so going to our boss and demanding a raise wouldn't quite work anyway, but nice try.

I'm just not quite understanding the logic behind how "punishing" someone (running laps) is supposed to RAISE a person's work ethic.  Damn near EVERY person I've EVER known from my kid all the way through the military and up to and including this Fed job gets ****** when they get punished, not motivated.  I'm going to have to disagree and say YOUR guy is the exception to the rule.

Someone getting motivated when they get punished, ha ha  **rolls eyes**.  Talk about living in a dream world.  I sincerely hope that you don't supervise people wherever you work because if you do I could honestly see some of them going postal after listening to your rah, rah "motivational" speeches  **rolls eyes yet again**.  Have to agree with Gill, if that's what you've "seen", you've "seen" a very, very limited amount of the REAL world **rolls eyes a third time**.

+1

"I'm just not quite understanding the logic behind how "punishing" someone (running laps) is supposed to RAISE a person's work ethic. Damn near EVERY person I've EVER known from my kid all the way through the military and up to and including this Fed job gets ****** when they get punished, not motivated. I'm going to have to disagree and say YOUR guy is the exception to the rule."

Well said angmar. 

 

Posted by llamanunts on 9/7/2012 3:47:00 PM (view original):

If you're willing to hate me because you disagree with what I have to say...

One problem is that quite often you disagree with what you have to say, coupled with an insistence that you don't do that.

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 3:05:00 PM (view original):

really? you continue to amaze. every time i lower my opinion of you, you scream, ITS NOT LOW ENOUGH YET!! after your child-like insistence on everyone "agreeing to disagree" (is this kindergarden? i thought people here were adults, not five year olds), you won't even do it now? what a joke. you are a joke, and not in the haha funny sort of way.

Let's be clear on a few of things:

First, I don't much care what your opinion is of me. I'm not here to win a popularity contest, nor am I here to impress you personally. I'm here to have a discussion about aspects of the game. If you're willing to hate me because you disagree with what I have to say, that's YOUR PROBLEM, and I'm not going to waste my time bothering with it. This is about HD, which is a GAME and we're merely discussing it - maybe you should relax and not take this stuff so seriously as to lower your opinion of people as a result of it.

Second, I asked people to "agree to disagree" because the unnecessary stuff - personal attacks, namecalling, insult hurling, attempts to bully others etc. - was at a ridiculous level. These are the things that actually ARE childish.  I find it to be very sad that while you're willing to tolerate and perhaps even participate in that kind of horrid behavior, you would get things 100% backward and actually call someone childish for attempting to stop it and asking everyone to "agree to disagree".

Third, I can "agree to disagree" on a great many things, but I won't do it when it's clear the other person doesn't really have a position, as they have nothing to offer to support their position and just want to throw it out there without even trying. I'll give them a fair chance to show they have something of substance to defend their position in case I"m wrong, but if they can't or won't do that, then there's no need to "agree to disagree" with a position that doesn't even actually exist. You can't agree, disagree, or even "agree to disagree" unless there's an actual case being made for another position.

rednation,

Using my player as an example, a feature allowing me to have him "run laps" (or whatever you want to call it) could have been instituted as soon as he sent me the email saying he wasn't happy and his WE started to drop a point or two.

Sure, he's not happy with the amount of time he gets on the court, but he's even less happy with having to run laps. So in order to keep from having to run laps, he'll make sure to give a better effort in practice and when he does get to play.

As for the direction the program is going, he has no reason to be unhappy about that.

If you want to implement a feature where the entire team can run laps to keep WE up, that's fine too. Put it up with the practice time for the various basketball IQs then.

Just give me some way to have ultimate control over my team the way I'm supposed to in this game.