Posted by dahsdebater on 9/6/2012 2:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 9/6/2012 12:11:00 PM (view original):
boy this thread really escalated quickly

I mean, it really got out of hand.

It jumped up a notch.

Posted by bistiza on 9/6/2012 2:46:00 PM (view original):
Yes, dahs, I know it does.

It's a form of classical conditioning, whereby a player learns to avoid the punishment of running laps by showing a greater effort in practice or in games.

I've actually seen in happen more than once in real life. If a player knows all you want is to see more effort and their lack of effort is the reason for any punishment they dont' like (such as running laps), most of them will respond and at least attempt to show more effort.

I agree the thread got out of hand, but it didn't need to get that way. If people would have dealt with the original topic instead of attacking me and looking for a way to prove me wrong (which proved to be a fruitless task that only served to waste their time while giving me some modest entertainment), then the thread wouldn't have gotten out of hand.

Or the player could say "**** you I'm out of here, this is bullshit" and then you lose a player.  If that player has guys on the team who think you're being harsh, his boys are gonna say "this coach is an idiot" and you're going to have a bunch of guys losing their work ethic.  

How the hell did this thread get to 29 pages.

Posted by bistiza on 9/6/2012 2:46:00 PM (view original):
Yes, dahs, I know it does.

It's a form of classical conditioning, whereby a player learns to avoid the punishment of running laps by showing a greater effort in practice or in games.

I've actually seen in happen more than once in real life. If a player knows all you want is to see more effort and their lack of effort is the reason for any punishment they dont' like (such as running laps), most of them will respond and at least attempt to show more effort.

I agree the thread got out of hand, but it didn't need to get that way. If people would have dealt with the original topic instead of attacking me and looking for a way to prove me wrong (which proved to be a fruitless task that only served to waste their time while giving me some modest entertainment), then the thread wouldn't have gotten out of hand.

oh yeah, you had NOTHING to do with it. shame on everyone else.

lets change topics, to something more interesting... borrowing from jeff foxworthy...

if your farts smell like roses... you might be bistiza
if you get captured, beaten, and tortured, and respond with a polite "thank you, may i have another?"... you might be bistiza
if your wife sleeps with another man, and this only encourages you to work harder at the marriage... you might be bistiza
if you name your dog logic, so you can proclaim yourself master of logic... you might be bistiza
if you name your dog logic, and grope him regularly, so you can honestly say, "ive got logic by the balls".... you might be bistiza
if you have a 2 inch ***** and tell women your ***** has "great" size... you might be bistiza
if you win a political debate, and then the election, even though you only won 1% of the vote... you might be bistiza
if you respond to "would you like fries with that" with an inquisition about the work ethic of the potato.... you might be bistiza
if you call your ex 8 times to remind her you aren't speaking to her... you might be bistiza
if you read 29 pages of a child's coloring book and proclaim it "very educational"... you might be bistiza
if your neighbor tells you to go f*** yourself, and you run obey... you might be bistiza
if you with Bill that there is wiggle room in what the definition of IS, is.... you might be bistiza
if you get the **** beat out of you by a street gang, and then tell your momma you kicked some ***.... you might be bistiza
if you say what you mean but dont mean what you say... you might be bistiza
if you flip flop worse than john kerry and make mitt romney look like a man of values... you might be bistiza
if you lead the dream team to a bronze medal, and proclaim the day "a great victory"... you might be bistiza
if you give real speeches to the "team" before the "big game"... you might be bistiza
if you sit one of your players for compromising his moral standards by getting caught smoking simulated marijuana... you might be bistiza
if you drop acid and then rant about how lazy your chia pet is.... you might be bistiza

continue?
(in good fun of course, no offense bitsiza)

Please do... awesome!

Yes, please CBG, continue!

"I don't agree, however, that running laps would have any chance of making a kid's WE tank. Any kid who would drop WE in real life because the coach actually asked him to give an effort doesn't deserve to be on the team in the first place."

That's great in theory, but certainly not reality.

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 9:02:00 AM (view original):

"Facade" or not, if a kid improves his effort in practice and the game, it doesn't matter if it's his real work ethic increasing for real or if he's acting like it is for the coach. The result is the same - he gives more effort in practice and the games.

My point for HD is that kind of thing should be simulated in the game. If I have an option to have the kid "run laps", then at the very least it should prevent a loss in WE, and depending upon the kid, it should also be able to inspire an increase. That would be realistic.

I don't agree, however, that running laps would have any chance of making a kid's WE tank. Any kid who would drop WE in real life because the coach actually asked him to give an effort doesn't deserve to be on the team in the first place.

I also don't agree with the player leaving. Most players wouldn't leave just because you ask them to work harder or make them run some laps, and most other players watching aren't going to get angry and think you're being harsh. If anything, other players will look at their slacking team mate and be angry at him for not putting in the effort they are. I've seen players get on another player to work harder many times first hand, but I've yet to see players all rally around a lazy player  who decideds to get petulant and threaten to quit just because he doesn't want to put in some effort.

The thread is this long because the original discussion was good, people took a long time to side track that, and then now it's come full circle.

As for it getting out of hand, I never wanted that to happen and tried to prevent it. If there weren't so many people trying to attack me and going on witch hunts to prove me wrong, things would have been fine, and this thread would have stayed on topic.

How dare people not recognize your Magnificence and just shut up!!!!

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 9:02:00 AM (view original):

"Facade" or not, if a kid improves his effort in practice and the game, it doesn't matter if it's his real work ethic increasing for real or if he's acting like it is for the coach. The result is the same - he gives more effort in practice and the games.

My point for HD is that kind of thing should be simulated in the game. If I have an option to have the kid "run laps", then at the very least it should prevent a loss in WE, and depending upon the kid, it should also be able to inspire an increase. That would be realistic.

I don't agree, however, that running laps would have any chance of making a kid's WE tank. Any kid who would drop WE in real life because the coach actually asked him to give an effort doesn't deserve to be on the team in the first place.

I also don't agree with the player leaving. Most players wouldn't leave just because you ask them to work harder or make them run some laps, and most other players watching aren't going to get angry and think you're being harsh. If anything, other players will look at their slacking team mate and be angry at him for not putting in the effort they are. I've seen players get on another player to work harder many times first hand, but I've yet to see players all rally around a lazy player  who decideds to get petulant and threaten to quit just because he doesn't want to put in some effort.

The thread is this long because the original discussion was good, people took a long time to side track that, and then now it's come full circle.

As for it getting out of hand, I never wanted that to happen and tried to prevent it. If there weren't so many people trying to attack me and going on witch hunts to prove me wrong, things would have been fine, and this thread would have stayed on topic.

You watch too many sports movies made by Disney.

So running a guy can only have a good outcome?  Why would that be a good feature in the game then?

this thread has one of the lowest ratios of significance for game play to volume that I have seen in a long time

Posted by ike1024 on 9/7/2012 9:17:00 AM (view original):
"I don't agree, however, that running laps would have any chance of making a kid's WE tank. Any kid who would drop WE in real life because the coach actually asked him to give an effort doesn't deserve to be on the team in the first place."

That's great in theory, but certainly not reality.

The problem with your theory is that the kid IS on the team and there certainly is a chance of his work ethic dropping.  Oddly enough, I was talking to my co-worker last night about our respective high school sports careers.  He told me that despite his being a three year starter, the coach was replacing him in the starting lineup for his senior season with a younger player.  Guess what happened?  He didn't work harder to regain his spot, didn't shut his mouth and run laps, didn't suck it up and take one for the team, he quit.  Point blank period.  Guess you could say that his "work ethic" tanked.  There's a real life example for you, not some statistical probability.  So despite your attempts at creating some fantasy world where everyone always works harder and is always about team, team, team, the REALITY is that world just doesn't exist except in one certain person's mind.

For the puposes of the game, I'm suggesting adding a practice option to the list of those which already exist.

It would function like study hall - you may not have to use it, but it's there. If a kid drops GPA, you give him study hall. Well, if a kid loses WE or makes demands, you could give him "run laps" or something similar, and this would alleivate those issues the same way study hall works with GPA.

Just like study hall, it would require strategy to use, because it would take away from practice time which could be used elsewhere. Along with this, it would be nice if, as I suggested earlier in the thread, there were ways to know if a kid was more or less prone to losing WE or complaining, so we could avoid those kids if we want to avoid use of "run laps" practice time.

Overall, I think implementing something along those levels, if done properly, would add a measure of realistic depth to the game.

Posted by bistiza on 9/7/2012 12:14:00 PM (view original):
For the puposes of the game, I'm suggesting adding a practice option to the list of those which already exist.

It would function like study hall - you may not have to use it, but it's there. If a kid drops GPA, you give him study hall. Well, if a kid loses WE or makes demands, you could give him "run laps" or something similar, and this would alleivate those issues the same way study hall works with GPA.

Just like study hall, it would require strategy to use, because it would take away from practice time which could be used elsewhere. Along with this, it would be nice if, as I suggested earlier in the thread, there were ways to know if a kid was more or less prone to losing WE or complaining, so we could avoid those kids if we want to avoid use of "run laps" practice time.

Overall, I think implementing something along those levels, if done properly, would add a measure of realistic depth to the game.

i think i first said it in on page 6, it was like my 2nd post, which you totally ignored (under coach_billyg)... there IS variation in how much work ethic players will lose (which is the other thing you asked for), and you can differentiate between those players. at least, you used to be able to, maybe seble changed that too, but i dont think so.

but, last time i said it to you, you said "that wouldnt work in my situation either", even though you'd also said that was exactly what you needed earlier. im not sure where you stand now but if that is what you need, its there (probably), and if its not what you need, then too bad! :)