I know. I thought it was funny too at first, and was thoroughly entertained by the entire idea people would go to any length to try to prove me wrong. I was so entertained, in fact, that I didn't mind encouraging it by showing them how they were failing repeatedly.

But now it's not funny, it's sad and predictable.

I'm hoping at least one person will have the sense to simply say "bis, I agree to disagree", but even if that doesn't happen, at least they might stop in this ridiculous quest to prove me wrong. It just grows sadder by the post.

Hey Bistiza, I agree to disagree.  Will you please go away now?

dcy, you haven't been the major source of discord here (which is a good thing, but it leaves me wondering why you'd agree to disagree).

I'm not even sure what you're agreeing to disagree about, and you didn't specify.

Posted by bistiza on 9/6/2012 9:14:00 AM (view original):
Too bad I never said I was done posting in the thread. I've said several times I MAY be done or that I'm done dealing with certain people regarding certain issues, but have not once said I was done posting altogether. I will make that determination whenever I want, the same as any of you are free to stop posting whenever you want.

The only reason I am really still posting is because I am entertained by how many off-topic points people can try to argue with me about because they are unwilling to admit I was right. When I said that wasn't even necessary, all they had to do was agree to disagree, NOT ONE PERSON even did that.

This thread would have been over a long time ago if no one went on witch hunts in an effort to prove me wrong about SOMETHING, ANYTHING because you couldn't stand not to do it.

Now that all of those efforts have failed and proven fruitless, what else are you going to attack? More of the words I choose to use in my posts? A new topic you bring up just for that purpose? Something completely off the wall?

Stop in your quest to prove me wrong. Just agree to disagree and move on already, cause it's not going to happen.

could you set forth a concise statement of the view as to which you wish people would agree that you were right?  I'd like to agree, or agree to disagree, but I'm no longer sure what the position is.

could you set forth a concise statement of the view as to which you wish people would agree that you were right?  I'd like to agree, or agree to disagree, but I'm no longer sure what the position is.

no, please don't. just go away.

you're just giving him what he wants.

boy this thread really escalated quickly

The key point is the central tenent of the original discussion, which is this:

A coach in HD should not have to cater to the demands of his players. If that absolutely must be part of the game, as some people insist, then not all players should react the same, and some shouldn't be angry at all if they don't get exactly what they expect, as this mirrors real life.

In real life, people are different. Some players are reasonable human beings and will not become angry, make demands or ultimatiums, or otherwise cause problems if they don't get exactly what they want when they want it. By the same token, some coaches simply will not put up with those things from players, even the ones who try them.

Players should react differently, and coaches should have more options to deal with petulant players. Perhaps there could be a "run laps" option for individual practice time, designed as a punishment for a  player whose WE is dropping. That could be quite realistic - you don't work hard, we'll run you.

Anyway, that is the central point which so many people have distracted from with their petty attempts to prove me wrong on issues that don't matter.

If people can't agree with my very logical position, at least they should agree to disagree. There's no need for getting angry over it.

Posted by bistiza on 9/6/2012 12:12:00 PM (view original):
The key point is the central tenent of the original discussion, which is this:

A coach in HD should not have to cater to the demands of his players. If that absolutely must be part of the game, as some people insist, then not all players should react the same, and some shouldn't be angry at all if they don't get exactly what they expect, as this mirrors real life.

In real life, people are different. Some players are reasonable human beings and will not become angry, make demands or ultimatiums, or otherwise cause problems if they don't get exactly what they want when they want it. By the same token, some coaches simply will not put up with those things from players, even the ones who try them.

Players should react differently, and coaches should have more options to deal with petulant players. Perhaps there could be a "run laps" option for individual practice time, designed as a punishment for a  player whose WE is dropping. That could be quite realistic - you don't work hard, we'll run you.

Anyway, that is the central point which so many people have distracted from with their petty attempts to prove me wrong on issues that don't matter.

If people can't agree with my very logical position, at least they should agree to disagree. There's no need for getting angry over it.

Okay, I agree to disagree with THIS.  Now would you PLEASE go away?  Pretty please?  With a cherry on top?

Hell, I'll agree to disagree as well...

Great.

It would be really amazing if those who sidetracked the argument in the first place would be willing to do the same.

Do you honestly believe forcing players to run laps actually makes their work ethic improve?

Posted by tianyi7886 on 9/6/2012 12:11:00 PM (view original):
boy this thread really escalated quickly

I mean, it really got out of hand.

Posted by bistiza on 9/6/2012 2:46:00 PM (view original):
Yes, dahs, I know it does.

It's a form of classical conditioning, whereby a player learns to avoid the punishment of running laps by showing a greater effort in practice or in games.

I've actually seen in happen more than once in real life. If a player knows all you want is to see more effort and their lack of effort is the reason for any punishment they dont' like (such as running laps), most of them will respond and at least attempt to show more effort.

I agree the thread got out of hand, but it didn't need to get that way. If people would have dealt with the original topic instead of attacking me and looking for a way to prove me wrong (which proved to be a fruitless task that only served to waste their time while giving me some modest entertainment), then the thread wouldn't have gotten out of hand.

And you don't think those players are "showing more effort" just to get the coach off their back?  They're giving him want he wants to see, no more and no less.  It's not necessarily improving their work ethic, it's just getting the coach to leave them alone.  A facade, if you will.  I've seen THAT firsthand.

So on that point, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps there could be a "run laps" option for individual practice time, designed as a punishment for a player whose WE is dropping. That could be quite realistic - you don't work hard, we'll run you.

That's not a bad idea.  Kid wants more basketball, he puts in the work.  Some kids would get the message, some kids would put up that facade mentioned above, and some kids would just shut it down (or perhaps leave only to be dragged back by their dads a la Hoosiers).  So you'd need a range of reactions here too.  Make him run, maybe he responds, but maybe his WE goes right in the tank.