All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > SimLeague Basketball > Dream Team (character counts!)
5/29/2013 3:59 PM
Posted by tmantom3285 on 5/29/2013 10:22:00 AM (view original):
Agree and disagree. Great offense can outweigh great defense, you gave some great examples of that. What I am saying though is that even if you played barkley-kobe-magic (your example)... I'm Pretty confident. I am fine with MJ holding Kobe (note: I'm not saying shut him down but MJ on Kobe is the difference between Kobe going 16-25 and 9-25.... 9-25 will still get Kobe his 23-24 points but that is a HUGE difference, especially across a playoff series). I'm also fine with LeBron on Magic, who once again will make plans but not at a great frequency. Magic also was not a great shooter, giving LeBron another advantage of being able to play off of him; Magic being big doesn't help when your playing a guy who is bigger and faster. Then with Hakeem and Russell inside I am suspecting they could hold Barkley (one of my favorite post players to watch and one of the greatest passing front court players) to something like his '93 Playoffs where he got his 26 points, but on 47% shooting. I'd expect those numbers to considerably less against the Dream and Russell (with LeBron being the guy they would try to force the P&R switches on). 

And then at the end of the day, aside from the fact that I think a team of Magic-Kobe-Barkely could be held by my squad to ~88-92 points a game for a series the question then becomes can Kobe/Magic/Barkley defend MJ/LeBron/Dream? I don't think so. Depending on who your other players are I think we're looking at a 5 game series with 1 game when Kobe and Barkley's superior offense carries them.

Just my opinion.
I agree with much of this... But that's a completely different statement from this:
Would be impossible to score against Glove-MJ-Lebron on the perimeter.

ps - Don't see Glove giving Magic any problems.  Magic can guard your team's PF but can Glove guard my team's PF?  And since your PF is Russell, Magic doesn't even really have to guard him.. just box out.
5/29/2013 10:04 PM
Posted by onslaught on 5/29/2013 4:08:00 PM (view original):
Let me start by assuming we are talking USA vs The World? With that in mind consider the difference in the FIBA style. There was a stretch where the US was getting crushed by inferior talent. Our guys looked clueless at times, which is the main reason for the new structure for USA Basketball. I will give you a starting 5 for conversation purposes, but the team is being designed to be interchangeable based on opponent strength and weaknesses.

Starters?
C- Hakeem Olajuwan - has the foot speed, length, and defensive skills to cover the 3 perimeter game of some of the Eurepean bigs.
PF- Charles Barkley- he scored at will in 92. He will also give you another rebounding option when dream gets pulled away from the basket.
SF- Le Bron James- he gives you to many options . He can guard guards and forwards, he can play the 1,2,3, and 4. And is smart enough to figure out his roll around the other players on the court.
SG- Michael Jordan- no explanation needed.
PG- Magic Johnson- mainly for his ability to orchestrate the offense, but he can play every position on the court if needed.

Alternates
Larry Bird- Because it would be disrespectful to not have him on the roster.
Kareem Abdul Jabar- would fit nice if you moved Dream to the 4. And with FIBA going to the thinner lane the Sky Hook would give the World nightmares.
Reggie Miller- can spread the floor, hit the clutch shot, or put it on the floor and drive past you. The FIBA game will rely so much on the 3 that you need to make sure you can keep up.
Chris Paul- to handle water bug PG (Bill Simmons). A good substitute to relieve Magic and gives you a different look than Magic.
Dennis Rodman- We need no more scoring. But the main reason here is the World is no longer scared of our players. Teaming him and Barkley would give us some intimidation as well as an irritant. Plus the fact that he would provide us with a master Flopper so abundantly accepted in FIBA.
Scottie Pippen- to have a comfort/reliability level with MJ when we go lock down defense and "release the dobermans". A poor mans Le Bron.
Tim Duncan- understands the team concept. Has superior footwork. Can guard all European bigs.

Head Coach- Greg Popovich
AHC- Mike Kryzesjkihvcdfftgnkne

Missing the Cut
Wilt Chamberlain- Would struggle as a perimeter defender. Plus, his FT% would be a liability. FIBA teams will foul a poor FT shooter even if they have the lead.
John Stockton- IMO Paul give you a huge defensive upgrade here.
Kevin Durant- Don't need his scoring which is his biggest asset. If he were to make it I would pull Reggie, but at this point in KD's career he doesn't have the skins on the wall that Reggie has.

Close Game Late with the lead
C- Kareem
PF- Bird
SF- Jordan
SG- Magic
PG CP3
Still gives me a team that can score and rebound pretty well. But most importantly, no liabilities at the line.

We need a bunch of 3's

C- Le Bron
PF- Bird
SF- Jordan
SG- Reggie
PG- CP3
Gives you a 3pt threat from every position, as well as everyone being able to create their own shot or a shot for others. You would clearly want to get the ball in the hands of Bird or Reggie.

Releasing The Doberman's
C-Hakeem
PF- Le Bron
SF- Rodman
SG- Pippen/Jordan
PG- Jordan/Pippen
Unequaled pressure. Speed at every position. Pip and MJ take turns hounding the opponents PG while Le Bron patrols the few passing lanes available.

Let's Grab Every Single Rebound
C- Kareem
PF- Barkley
SF- Rodman
SG- Le Bron
PG- Pippen
Every player gives you a dominant rebounder for their position.

Down 1 with 8 seconds Left, we have the ball
C- Duncan
PF- Barkley
SF- Bird
SG- Reggie
PG- Jordan
I'm putting Jordan at the point because there is no better shot maker/creator. MJ would penetrate the lane if the defense collapses he would have the option of Barkley or Duncan from about the 12ft range or Bird and Reggie on the wings. If the defense doesn't collapse, that's their *****.





OK....

Why do you hate Magic Johnson?

He should be on the three point lineup.  His passing makes sure he will hit the right guy, and he can knock it down if needed...91 Finals he hits two threes in the last 1:30 to get the Lakers the only victory in the series.  Oh and under no circumstances should the words LeBron and center be in the same sentence without can't play being in the middle.  How about Magic, Reggie, Jordan, Bird, and Dream?  Dream could hit the three (he even hit one in game 7 of the finals in 94), but he played far enough from the basket to get the longer rebounds.  

Close game?  Magic is a top ten, maybe top five clutch guy.  Off the top of my head I can only think of MJ, Bird, West, and Reggie ahead of him, but his passing skills probably puts him ahead of Reggie.

Rebounding Lineup?  I would go with Magic over Pippen.  Magic averaged almost a full rebound a game over Pippen, and Pip was a SF.

Down 1 with 8 on the clock?  Magic, MJ, Bird, Barkley, Kareem is the lineup.  If MJ or Bird missed Barkley could get the rebound and put back the shot.  If MJ and Bird are covered, Magic can dish to Cap and let his highly accurate and virtually unstoppable sky hook win the game.  Magic not only is the best passer, but Magic has a keen basketball sense.  He is big enough to throw a good pick to give Jordan or Bird space, and both of those guys can make the shot or pass to lead the team to victory.

Magic is one of the five greatest players EVER.  How does he not make a key lineup.
5/29/2013 10:58 PM
Buddy of mine at work whom I talk hoops with all the time said he'd go with a center combo of Kareem & Shaq.  I asked him why those two in particular and he gave me the following dissertation (paraphrased):

Both were unstoppable offensively but in completely different ways.  Shaq bruised you and, for the most part, simply overpowered you.  You would get so physically exhausted trying to guard him.  He was the most brutal post man ever... and then you bring in Jabbar, who was as unstoppable if not more so in a completely different way... giving you all the good down-low stuff in addition to the most-impossible-to-stop shot of all time.  Jabbar could be in the game in clutch situations, too, because he could hit his free throws.  Also, for a fast paced tempo which you would probably play considering who else you put in your starting lineup, Jabbar makes a ton of sense seeing as how he was the spark plug of Showtime.

Pretty convincing.  I'm not sure I wouldn't follow his logic here.  Most of the elite centers, while powerful (and definitely not soft), were more finesse oriented.  Wilt did the little fade-away-finger-roll... Hakeem did a lot of spin-off shooting... I don't really feel like anybody else is even worth talking about at this point... Shaq's brute force combined with Jabbar's all-around greatness is a perfect fit.  Have Dream as another option for elite defense (and another agile scorer who could easily play the 4 and cover a variety of power forwards) or Wilt if you wanted an elite rebounder...



So if I was going off my buddy's idea, I'd probably fill out the roster with:

C  Kareem / Shaq
F Lebron / Barkley (for uptempo game) / Duncan (for P'N'Rs & defending other bigs)
F Bird / Pippen (ultimate compliment player) / Durant (for range)
G Jordan / Ginobili (still love the idea of backing up MJ for 10 minutes a game... also run pnr with duncan)
G Magic / Stockton (pnr with duncan... better defender than ppl giving him credit for)
5/29/2013 11:54 PM
It's not called spin-off shooting.  It's called the Dream Shake...lol
5/30/2013 12:07 AM
He did far more than just the Dream Shake, though...  I wasn't speaking of one specific thing...
5/30/2013 1:12 PM (edited)
PG Magic
SG MJ
SF Bird
PF Duncan
C Wilt

LBJ-By far the best currently playing. I think he could handle coming off the bench because he has showed a willingness to learn from those who have come before him. YouTube has video of him and Olajwon working on post moves
McHale-Former 6th man winner,and just winner in general.
Pippen- I think after Magic and LBJ, this is the next guy who could go 1-5 on both sides of the ball.
Reggie Miller-
Rodman- Heart, Hustle, and Muscle which leads me to....


HOMER ALERT!
Noah and Nate Robinson- these two would do anything to win. I don't think they would love being on the bench, but would really give it 110% at practice and coach could really send a message to the rotation guys to get their heads out of there a**es if he put them in the game.


Bummed to leave out Stockton and Kareem...
5/30/2013 9:28 PM
Posted by ashamael on 5/30/2013 12:07:00 AM (view original):
He did far more than just the Dream Shake, though...  I wasn't speaking of one specific thing...
My remark was a joke...I wasn't trying to be snarky.
5/30/2013 9:42 PM
Posted by jhsukow on 5/30/2013 1:12:00 PM (view original):
PG Magic
SG MJ
SF Bird
PF Duncan
C Wilt

LBJ-By far the best currently playing. I think he could handle coming off the bench because he has showed a willingness to learn from those who have come before him. YouTube has video of him and Olajwon working on post moves
McHale-Former 6th man winner,and just winner in general.
Pippen- I think after Magic and LBJ, this is the next guy who could go 1-5 on both sides of the ball.
Reggie Miller-
Rodman- Heart, Hustle, and Muscle which leads me to....


HOMER ALERT!
Noah and Nate Robinson- these two would do anything to win. I don't think they would love being on the bench, but would really give it 110% at practice and coach could really send a message to the rotation guys to get their heads out of there a**es if he put them in the game.


Bummed to leave out Stockton and Kareem...
Ok just one center?  6 of the top 15 players in NBA history were centers and you choose one.

I know you mentioned homer alert, but seriously if you need a never say die PG choose one with more talent like Isiah Thomas, Allen Iverson, or Jerry West.  Why take Noah when you already have Rodman and Duncan.  You could have Kareem, Olajuwon, Shaq, Moses, Russell instead.  Do you think anyone wanted to win more than Russell?  The only difference is that HE ACTUALLY WON.

BTW...NO PIPPEN COULDN'T GO 1-5 AND NEITHER CAN LEBRON.  Magic did it in the 80 Finals in the final game, but he was playing against Caldwell Jones and Darrell Dawkins.  Neither could defend a young quick Magic in the post, and Magic has always been a problem to try to get around for rebounding purposes.  Jones and Dawkins wouldn't defend something that they couldn't foul first.
5/30/2013 11:14 PM
My team is based on the fact that you only have one ball and 240 minutes. I understand that the Dream Teams of the past have platooned players, but I find that inefficient. Wilt doesn't really need a backup. 1. He really left the game and 2. He never fouled out.

I completely agree that the NBA has been dominated by centers; I'm just going to play the best one for 48 minutes.

Magic/LBJ/Pippen couldn't stay with Moses, Kareem, Shaq, Russell, or (I'm going to replace Olajuwon with David Robinson) but I would bet on those three shutting down 95% of the Centers who ever played.

5/31/2013 2:23 AM
Posted by malone9975 on 5/30/2013 9:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 5/30/2013 12:07:00 AM (view original):
He did far more than just the Dream Shake, though...  I wasn't speaking of one specific thing...
My remark was a joke...I wasn't trying to be snarky.
cool.  For good measure, I just went to youtube and watched the Dream make the Admiral look silly in your honor.
5/31/2013 8:02 AM
Posted by jhsukow on 5/30/2013 11:14:00 PM (view original):
My team is based on the fact that you only have one ball and 240 minutes. I understand that the Dream Teams of the past have platooned players, but I find that inefficient. Wilt doesn't really need a backup. 1. He really left the game and 2. He never fouled out.

I completely agree that the NBA has been dominated by centers; I'm just going to play the best one for 48 minutes.

Magic/LBJ/Pippen couldn't stay with Moses, Kareem, Shaq, Russell, or (I'm going to replace Olajuwon with David Robinson) but I would bet on those three shutting down 95% of the Centers who ever played.

Are you telling me that you find Robinson to better than Olajuwon?
5/31/2013 8:03 AM
Posted by ashamael on 5/31/2013 2:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by malone9975 on 5/30/2013 9:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 5/30/2013 12:07:00 AM (view original):
He did far more than just the Dream Shake, though...  I wasn't speaking of one specific thing...
My remark was a joke...I wasn't trying to be snarky.
cool.  For good measure, I just went to youtube and watched the Dream make the Admiral look silly in your honor.
Thank you sir!
5/31/2013 9:31 AM
Posted by jhsukow on 5/30/2013 11:14:00 PM (view original):
My team is based on the fact that you only have one ball and 240 minutes. I understand that the Dream Teams of the past have platooned players, but I find that inefficient. Wilt doesn't really need a backup. 1. He really left the game and 2. He never fouled out.

I completely agree that the NBA has been dominated by centers; I'm just going to play the best one for 48 minutes.

Magic/LBJ/Pippen couldn't stay with Moses, Kareem, Shaq, Russell, or (I'm going to replace Olajuwon with David Robinson) but I would bet on those three shutting down 95% of the Centers who ever played.

oh I suppose they could shut down russell, he barely had an offensive game to speak of anyway and Lebron is bigger than he was
5/31/2013 11:40 AM
Starting five:
PG - Magic
SG - Jordan
SF - Bird
PF - Russell
C - Kareem

Bench:
Bigs - Wilt, Duncan, Hakeem
Point & Swing - LeBron, Kobe, West, Oscar
5/31/2013 5:48 PM
G LeBron
G MJ
F Barkley
F Duncan
C Russell

Bench: Magic, Pippen, Mailman, Dream, Rodman, Bird, and Kobe.



of 5
All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > SimLeague Basketball > Dream Team (character counts!)

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.