All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Gold Glover Jeter, Best SS Evah!!!, robbed of MVP
3/28/2013 11:25 AM
Beltre did worse than Wright, and yet Texas signed him to the current deal he had.  If Texas had signed Wright, logic says he's probably do better, right?  And would justify the contract?

A-Rod makes more than Pujols, Tex and Fielder.  What's the point?
3/28/2013 11:33 AM
Don't know.  Didn't the Mets move their fences in because Wright couldn't hit at Citifield?   Seems like he has to be pampered to put up numbers.

Is A-Roid three 3B?   I thought he was one guy.   Can't you read?  The point was that 1B are paid more than 3B.   It's just a fact.
3/28/2013 11:45 AM
They moved the walls in a little because nobody could hit a home run.  But it's certainly not a hitter's park.

Miguel Cabrera is more valuable at 3B than he is at 1B.  Just because more first basemen get paid ridiculous contracts doesn't mean they aren't actually overpaid.  I actually blame all of it on Ryan Howard's deal.  It was widely mocked at the time, and looks worse now.

I compared Wright to other third basemen who put up similar numbers than him.  Wright gets paid a similar amount to them.  You're claiming there's no chance he'd make that much on the open market, and that's wrong.  In fact, I'd argue there's an excellent chance the Yankees offer Wright that contract.

When you compare Jeter to other shortstops who put up similar numbers at the time of his contract negotiations, you find that Jeter gets paid an insane amount more than them.
3/28/2013 11:55 AM
I think the best comparison to Jeter is Marco Scutaro.  In 2010, at age 34, he signed a 2 year, $11 million deal.  In 2012, at age 36, he signed a 1 year, $6 million deal.  He was traded to the Giants, had a monster 2nd half, and parlayed that into a 3 year, $20 million deal at age 37.
3/28/2013 12:04 PM
I'm looking for other SS who continue playing into their late 30s, but there just aren't many because they play another position, or they retire.  The ones that do sign contracts and start at SS get worse over time.
3/28/2013 12:08 PM

Point being that 1B make considerably more than 3B.  So, yes, Fielder could get a ridiculous deal that's worth much more than Wright's ridiculous deal.

Wright's bat compares to Youk's in Boston.   Highest salary, 12m.  Averaged about 9m in his 3 highest paid seasons.   I'd say Wright's market value, especially when he's not on the market, is around 12m.    He's only overpaid by 30%.  Until he's 37.
 

3/28/2013 12:30 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/28/2013 12:08:00 PM (view original):

Point being that 1B make considerably more than 3B.  So, yes, Fielder could get a ridiculous deal that's worth much more than Wright's ridiculous deal.

Wright's bat compares to Youk's in Boston.   Highest salary, 12m.  Averaged about 9m in his 3 highest paid seasons.   I'd say Wright's market value, especially when he's not on the market, is around 12m.    He's only overpaid by 30%.  Until he's 37.
 

You think that a good defensive third baseman hitting .300/.400/.550 would only be worth $12 million a year on the open market today?


3/28/2013 12:31 PM
Awesome, congrats on finding 1 contract that sort of supports your argument.  He signed a 4 year deal that ate up 2 of his 3 arbitration years.  The other "non-arbitration" years amounted to 2 years, $25 million, or $12.5M a year.  A team friendly deal.  The Yankees just signed him to a 1 year deal for $12 million, and didn't originally intend on getting him 650 PAs, either.  

So we're ignoring the Zimm and Beltre deals now? You know, the ones that pay similar amount for similar production?

Do you want me to show you the most team friendly contracts for shortstops (who actually have range) in their mid-30s with a mid 700s ops?
3/28/2013 12:34 PM
I promise you if Wright were a FA next year, the Yankees would be all over him, and offering him slightly ******* more than $12M a year.
3/28/2013 12:59 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/28/2013 12:31:00 PM (view original):
Awesome, congrats on finding 1 contract that sort of supports your argument.  He signed a 4 year deal that ate up 2 of his 3 arbitration years.  The other "non-arbitration" years amounted to 2 years, $25 million, or $12.5M a year.  A team friendly deal.  The Yankees just signed him to a 1 year deal for $12 million, and didn't originally intend on getting him 650 PAs, either.  

So we're ignoring the Zimm and Beltre deals now? You know, the ones that pay similar amount for similar production?

Do you want me to show you the most team friendly contracts for shortstops (who actually have range) in their mid-30s with a mid 700s ops?
Youk just happened to be the first guy who came to mind.  

But, anyway, are you saying the Sux essentially negotiated against themselves?    Seems they got a very friendly deal whereas the Mets, negotiating against themselves, paid over market value.

I not ignoring Zim/Beltre.  I thought we determined that both deals were better than Wrights.   Was I wrong?   16m for Beltre can be voided if he fails to reach a certain level of performance.   18m of Zim is team option at the age of 35(Wright is guaranteed thru 37).
3/28/2013 1:01 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/28/2013 12:34:00 PM (view original):
I promise you if Wright were a FA next year, the Yankees would be all over him, and offering him slightly ******* more than $12M a year.
Yankees don't count.    I thought you decided, long ago, that the Yanks overpay.   Beltre is your guideline.  He's the only 3B, in recent memory, who went to FA and signed a similar deal.   As I keep saying, the Mets negotiated against themselves.   He was still under contract for at least another season when they backed up the money truck.
3/28/2013 1:02 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/28/2013 12:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/28/2013 12:31:00 PM (view original):
Awesome, congrats on finding 1 contract that sort of supports your argument.  He signed a 4 year deal that ate up 2 of his 3 arbitration years.  The other "non-arbitration" years amounted to 2 years, $25 million, or $12.5M a year.  A team friendly deal.  The Yankees just signed him to a 1 year deal for $12 million, and didn't originally intend on getting him 650 PAs, either.  

So we're ignoring the Zimm and Beltre deals now? You know, the ones that pay similar amount for similar production?

Do you want me to show you the most team friendly contracts for shortstops (who actually have range) in their mid-30s with a mid 700s ops?
Youk just happened to be the first guy who came to mind.  

But, anyway, are you saying the Sux essentially negotiated against themselves?    Seems they got a very friendly deal whereas the Mets, negotiating against themselves, paid over market value.

I not ignoring Zim/Beltre.  I thought we determined that both deals were better than Wrights.   Was I wrong?   16m for Beltre can be voided if he fails to reach a certain level of performance.   18m of Zim is team option at the age of 35(Wright is guaranteed thru 37).
Wright is better than both Zim and Beltre. Beltre is also older than Wright and Zimmerman is a bigger injury risk. But even then, Wright's deal isn't much more than theirs.
3/28/2013 1:06 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/28/2013 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/28/2013 12:34:00 PM (view original):
I promise you if Wright were a FA next year, the Yankees would be all over him, and offering him slightly ******* more than $12M a year.
Yankees don't count.    I thought you decided, long ago, that the Yanks overpay.   Beltre is your guideline.  He's the only 3B, in recent memory, who went to FA and signed a similar deal.   As I keep saying, the Mets negotiated against themselves.   He was still under contract for at least another season when they backed up the money truck.
Are you saying Wright would have gotten less on the open market had the Mets not signed him to an extension?
3/28/2013 2:07 PM
I think that's what he's saying, which is just wrong.

Zim, Beltre and Wright are all similar players.  Over the course of their careers, Wright has better offensive numbers than all of them.  He is making a little more per year than each of them.  He's getting paid until he's 37, like Beltre.  The Mets aren't "bidding against themselves" because there would be other teams bidding that much on Wright.  Look at all the teams that spend money consistently that need third basemen.  You don't think for a second the Cubs would be all over Wright? Especially with Soriano coming off the books soon.  Angels are starting Alberto Callaspo.  Dodgers are starting Juan Uribe.  

If the Yankees don't count, then why you getting all bitchy about me criticizing Jeter's deal?  Just say, "yea, but it doesn't matter that's he's getting paid twice of what he's worth, they're the Yankees."
3/28/2013 2:30 PM

Wright was under contract.   I don't think you're the GM of any MLB club therefore you don't KNOW anything about what 31 other teams would have spent on him.   As I said, Beltre is your best example.  He's been a better hitter and he has to meet performance standards to get that last 16m.

The Mets bid against themselves and overpaid for the "right" to do so.

And probably for the right to battle for 4th for the duration of the deal.

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