All Forums > SimLeague Hockey > SimLeague Hockey > Hockey Dynasty Status Update
11/24/2011 7:07 PM
Oh I know, there were some guys who pulled some shisty sh*t in progressive and regressive hockey leagues. Could we agree then no more then 3 picks for the next seasons draft only if you have already purchased the next season? I feel like (if WIS is listening to any of this) it would allow to trade some picks for vets while still maintaining the integrity of the game and not screwing over future owners.
11/25/2011 8:24 AM (edited)
Oh..the crap that is pulled in prog/reg leagues is NOTHING compared to what I've personally seen done in HBD

The real key to all this is pretty simple..No way WIS is going to allow it.  Plain and simple, really no way they can.  They have to keep each season separate and independent from one another.  Each season is by itself a competition between the owners and therefore they must make it as level playing field as possible within that competition. Remember in a way this a kind of 'gaming' site and is bound by particular rules and laws, they MUST stay within those.

To give you an example: In HBD tanking was (and still is) a major issue.  One suggestion was to give teams that make the playoffs or finish with over 90 wins a bonus to their budget in the next season.  Rational being, more fans would come out for a winning team and they sell more merchandise etc etc etc. Yes this all very true in real life. WIS's answer to this was basically the paragraph I stated above.

So I think you'll find the exact same logic behind  their (WIS) reason in not allowing the trading of future draft picks. If even there is even the remotest of chance an owner will not return the next season..NO WAY THEY CAN ALLOW IT.  Since there is NO WAY you can guarantee an owner will return...
11/27/2011 9:29 AM
I think trading future draft picks should be allowed, and you do it by simply having the owner in question buy the seasons up to and 1 AFTER the pick he wants to trade.  So for example we are in season 1, owner a wants to trade his next 2 1st rd picks for a superstar to push him over the edge in likely winning the Stanley cup.  In this situation he would have had to buy 2nd 3rd and the 4th season, and they are locked in.  The owner may leave but his credits stay and whoever takes the franchise gets those free seasons.  This would only work if the seasons that are bought are LOCKED in and cant be released in no way possible.
11/27/2011 10:45 AM
I still don't like the idea.
11/27/2011 5:16 PM (edited)
That 'might' work..still I seriously doubt WIS would go for it.  In present 6 Season Hockey Multiple Season theme (or dynasty if you will) ALL owners must purchase 6 seasons.  The key here is the ALL owners, again we get back to the need for equality.  Also we get back to the rules and reg the govern this kind of website.  I would suspect that making ONE owner purchase multiple seasons and make it non-refundable, no matter the reason, and not ALL...is most likely against these rules etc. 

I realize this may sound like a broken record..rules and regs BUT it is the fact of the matter....WIS is bound by these and they said this about many suggestions that have been made about HBD.  Again I suspect, they have said it about their other products too, when we have made suggestions. Some these regs/rules may seem 'silly' BUT they must abide by them..Example: a couple of years ago we had set up theme to honor an owner who past away (lounpink aka Curt)..well Mike Welch had asked to join in (cause Mike had many dealing with this person and this person had help with testing/suggestions etc etc).  Well we ALL knew that Mike was an employee with WIS, still he had to openly disclose that fact in the forum and make sure we ALL understood that etc etc.This was a requirement due to the fact that is a 'gaming' site. Seemed silly at the time but I understood..he's just obeying the rules & regs, therefore respected it for that reason.


Now if you forced ALL owners to purchase say 5 seasons at time..Not allow trading of any picks into the 6th???  Here is the thing...not an easy sell!!  Okay let's look at things here:  Now let's say a season will last 65 day (82 games with 2 a day, 4 rounds of playoffs, Pre-season activity of of setting of budgets, draft, ex-season plus the few days after season to allow owners who need it to 'reup' etc), With 5 seasons for a tot of 325 days or 11 months. Say they charge $20 per season (total of $100), this would have to be a non-refundable purchase.  Now try to sell that to newbie??  They don't know if they will even like the game...you're asking them to fork out $100 and five whole seasons...??? 

 
11/27/2011 4:47 PM
My question is though, what is the difference between trading a first round draft pick in hockey or waiting a year and trading the guy you drafted in the first round the next year in HBD? Beleive me, I know all too well about building a team from the ground up. My San Diego team won less then 50 games one year, but now getting to the point where they are competing for a wildcard spot is the greatest feeling.
11/27/2011 5:35 PM
Nothing really...except one very important issue, you'll be trading away a pick of another owner's (if you don't return).  As stated WIS can't allow this.

My thought:  If you are so bent on trading away a prospect (which what a draft pick is, past or future same thing) what is the difference between next season's first round pick or the player just drafted in the first round of the present's draft??  Rules would allow you to trade away the player you just drafted....NHL allows that and I can't see why WIS wouldn't allow that in a Hockey Dynasty. 

I've done many draft reviews for one HBD worlds I'm in.  On overall basis, they are all basically the same.  One 'might' be a little stronger in pitching prospects and another might be a little stronger in the positional area...BUT there always seems to be a few UBER prospects, a fair # of great prospects........this is by design.  Question for you..can this be said for real life drafts???  You and I know the answer to that is NO!  So in a Dynasty style game..there isn't any great difference between the drafts.

So I come back to my ?...what is the difference between next season's first round pick or the player just drafted in the first round of the present's draft??  Answer not much really.... That being the case, what's the big deal about trading away a future pick? 
11/27/2011 7:32 PM
Im not suggesting that everybody needs to put up 5 seasons worth of cash straight away.  Im just saying you need to have paid for future seasons if you wish to sell future draft picks.  If you dont want to trade away future draft picks then dont buy future seasons, just buy 1 at a time.  You certainly should have the choice!

And I think buying 1 more season past the furthest in the future draft pick you want to trade away makes sense too because is certainly will disincentivise loading up like crazy for today only to ruin the team for a few seasons, because you have paid for those seasons. 
11/27/2011 9:17 PM (edited)
The key is they can't force only the one owner to buy 1 or any # of future seasons (non-refundable) for ANY reason (remember rules & regs).  It's an ALL or nothing thing...either they ALL do or none of them.  If none, that means trading of 'future' picks is out, it's really that simple.

Now whether or not 'choice' comes into I'm not sure.  Could a person reserve the next season and make it non-refundable by choice?  I know some of the rules/regs but not really up on whether or not that would be allowed. That  very well could be a big 'grey' area.  In reality that could really come down to consumer laws of the particular state or province the individual participating in the league resides in.  Most times in these types of cases, it is far better for company to error to side of caution...

11/30/2011 12:36 PM
Man, when r they ever gonna get this game up and running?  Im dieing for some puck dynasty!  (just dont make it too much like SLH is all!)
12/1/2011 12:51 PM
What about having the draft at the end of the regular season? That way you can trade away that years picks (I'd say 2 would be good. 3 at the most) without screwing over a future owner.

The reason why I keep pushing to trade draft picks is because in HBD there have been times where I have taken over a team that I have done remarkably well with in its first season, I needed that one last piece to be really really good but looking through my prospects I have nothing but junk. Being able to even just trade away the first round pick from the year would get me the guy I needed at no cost to a future owner if I left after that year.
12/1/2011 4:32 PM
K...HBD follows MLB rules (as stated before, at least as close as possible), where the trading of ANY picks is NOT allowed. Therefore you're talking apples and oranges.. Yes, it's allowed in NHL and therefore worth consideration.

1 - You can't have the draft at the end of the season.  While it would be nice for owners not in the playoffs or get knocked out early to have something to look forward to (instead of the waiting in HBD); the key here is what about the MIA owners and owners that aren't returning (for whatever reason)...   They will not put any effort into the draft etc etc therefore hurting the future of that team. This is NOT a 'maybe' case..IT WILL HAPPEN.  By putting at the start or near the start, at least you'll the maximum effort of the owners.  Owners still have gone MIA early in HBD..heck some as early as before the pre-season starts. Still that is far less common as the ones that disappear midway through the season OR will not return

2..I get back to my question I asked before (never have heard an answer yet)..What is the difference between trading your 1st round pick this season and a future 1st rounder?  

Like I stated before, unlike real life, drafts in HBD (and will be no different in a Ice Dynasty) are all pretty much equal, on an overall basis. In real life not all 'draft classes' are not created equal.  I can tell you that all HBD drafts have possible future superstars (note plural) available, same can't be said for real life!
 
The only difference between drafts in HBD is some may have better pitching prospects and others my be better in the positional spots BUT overall....  WIS has made them that way.    The only difference in a HBD draft is the prospects the individual owners see.  This being based on what they put into the budget for scouting etc etc.  BUT the draft class an overall whole is equal to any other season of HBD.. 

So I come back to that question... If you're so intent on making a trade to get a player or two for a run at the cup..what's wrong with trading your #1 pick from that season's draft??




12/1/2011 4:43 PM
Assuming that the sim would let you do that it is ok. The difference though is lets say team A drafted a goalie with their 15th overall pick and team B is looking to trade away a 35 year old superstar past his prime but want a Centre, Defenseman (fill in the blank with anything but a goalie) then you're kinda SOL. Yes, in HBD a lot of the drafts are similar but if I have a prospect pitcher that I could trade and you need a switch hitting Short Stop there is nothing I can do about this. Again, hence why I like how hockey allows trading draft picks.
12/1/2011 5:01 PM
STFU
12/1/2011 5:19 PM (edited)

HBD the overall talent available in each draft is the same. Again MLB is MLB it's not the NHL..therefore Apples & Oranges. Okay, that's a decent point.  In real life that's seldom (if ever) the reason a future pick being dealt.  It's usually due to the fact you expect to make the playoffs that season and therefore will not being getting a high draft pick.  Your scouts have told you that talent pool isn't that deep so highly unlikely you'll be getting anything major in the draft. So you trade it with the hope of getting something that will help you maybe win the cup!
 

Hockey is very unique among professional sports in one aspect. That is the importance of the 'trade deadline'!  In football, that deadline comes and goes barely anyone even notices.  NBA and MLB a few deals are made but rarely anything MAJOR happens.   BUT the NHL....it's a MAJOR EVENT with dozens of deals made and there always seems to be at least 1 major deal (usually more).GMs gear up for that day etc etc.  I'm curious WHY? 

Anyway, I'd like to see this kind of thing happen in a Hockey Dynasty game too. The ability to trade future pick may make this happen. BUT trading away future picks is a VERY dangerous thing and no doubt will open things up to TONS of abuse.  Most of these I can't see because I don't think the way these 'cheats' do...  I do guarantee if allowed..it will be nothing but trouble. A perfect example in HBD is the ability to 'transfer' funds in your budget from payroll to prospects.  It was first done to allow owners to 'correct' mistakes etc.  Setting budgets is the first thing you do, so being able to adjust things a little was asked for and WIS put it in. Well now it has developed in TANKING!!!  This trading of future picks will develop into something ugly..of that I've got no doubt.
 

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