All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > The Promotion of The Fatigue Strategy
1/21/2010 3:47 PM
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
1/21/2010 4:19 PM
So, in other words, admin couldn't figure out what the glitch was that caused pitchers to exceed their 110% (or 117%) they were supposed to be allotted, so they fixed the symptoms by introducing appearance fatigue instead of fixing the root cause. Thats how I read it anyway.
1/21/2010 4:35 PM
It was a little bit more complicated than that. Over a short time period admin:

* instituted appearance fatigue
* changed the way pitches per PA were calculated
* reduced the effect of extreme range
* increased the # of pitches per PA in pitcher's parks

All of these were introduced to stop the Superman Long A glitch.
1/21/2010 4:59 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By Trentonjoe on 1/21/2010It was a little bit more complicated than that. Over a short time period admin:

* instituted appearance fatigue
* changed the way pitches per PA were calculated
* reduced the effect of extreme range
* increased the # of pitches per PA in pitcher's parks

All of these were introduced to stop the Superman Long A glitch
So they made 4 changes to try to solve one problem.

Seemingly, remedy 2, 3 and 4 (especially 2) would have been sufficient. No?
1/21/2010 5:06 PM
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
1/21/2010 5:46 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By Trentonjoe on 1/21/2010It was a little bit more complicated than that. Over a short time period admin:

* instituted appearance fatigue
* changed the way pitches per PA were calculated
* reduced the effect of extreme range
* increased the # of pitches per PA in pitcher's parks

All of these were introduced to stop the Superman Long A glitch
I have a hard time wrapping my head around how any of those four things address the glitch.

If you're playing a first person shooter game online, and there is a glitch near a building that allows you to drop underneath the ground and see people when they can't see you, you don't fix the glitch by limiting the number of bullets in a round, or limit the damage done per shot, or reduce the number of players per map, you just fix the glitch that allows you to drop under the ground.

I can't imagine why it is so hard to allow a 200IP pitcher to make 100 long A appearances and pitch 220 innings. Why would appearing in more games cause a guy to pitch more innings? Whatever caused them to pitch more than 220 innings is the glitch. Being allowed to appear in more than 81 games was not the glitch.
1/21/2010 6:17 PM
Come on booger, you're smarter than that.

The reason these guys were getting to pitch so many innings were because they threw to few pitches.

Can you figure it out now?
1/21/2010 7:11 PM
Uh....if they threw too few pitches per batter faced, then they threw too few pitches regardless of what role they were in. WTH does '# of appearances' or 'Long A' have to do with it?
1/21/2010 7:25 PM
You used to be able to get a lot more out of them as starters as well but you could get ridiculous # of innings out of them as relievers.

Since they never suffered in game fatigue they were always pitching at maximum effectiveness which kept there PC really low.

And since they never pitched enough innings per appearance (don't ask me what # that was) they were always ready to go to the next day because they didn't go over their projected seasonal pitch count.

It was like as if they didn't fatigue.


Maddux and Pedro use to routinely appear in 140-150 games getting 140-65% of their innings. It was pretty awful.
1/21/2010 7:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Trentonjoe on 1/21/2010You used to be able to get a lot more out of them as starters as well but you could get ridiculous # of innings out of them as relievers.

Since they never suffered in game fatigue they were always pitching at maximum effectiveness which kept there PC really low.

And since they never pitched enough innings per appearance (don't ask me what # that was) they were always ready to go to the next day because they didn't go over their projected seasonal pitch count.

It was like as if they didn't fatigue.


Maddux and Pedro use to routinely appear in 140-150 games getting 140-65% of their innings. It was pretty awful.

I once got 435 IP in 161 appearances out of '94 Maddux (approx. 287 IP/162). He was never fatigued between appearances. There is no chance that he could do that in real life.
1/21/2010 8:32 PM
Maddux certainly couldn't, but it's plausible that the old dudes who threw a big chunk of innings in 50+% of their team's games could have... that's only ~ 3IP/appearance.
1/22/2010 12:20 AM
Quote: Originally posted by inkdskn on 1/21/2010What is the upper bound for appearances?

113-114 appearances, but you have to either get lucky, or really manage/manipulate fatigue well to reach that without experiencing fatigue. The most I've been able to get out of anyone is 111...
1/22/2010 12:37 AM
Quote: Originally posted by grizzly_one on 1/21/2010In 1885 John Clarkston started 70 games and pitched 623 inning. Guys like this should NOT have their stats prorated per 162 games.

I agree.

Yabahos or Yaz_Benders had some good data that JohnGPF expanded upon relating to the length of the season. In summary, the data showed that even though the number of games per season has steadily increased, the actual length of the season in days has remained fairly constant (roughly 180 days). So, even if John Clarkson played on our current, 162 game schedule, he likely wouldn't have had many more starts than he had in 1885 (as rest days were built into the schedule rather than him taking a turn in the rotation). Prorating his actual season in that regard he prorates to 78 starts and roughly 706 IP. Both of which are far more usable in the sim than the 162 game prorations.
1/22/2010 8:18 AM
Even in the late 19th and early 20th century, there were more off days than there are today. When you combine that with a deader ball and lineups where only a few players could hurt you, star pitchers didn't have to work as hard on each pitch as is the case today.

In 1913, Walter Johnson was much more effective on 3-4 days rest than on short rest. He made most of his starts on 3-4 days rest. I seriously doubt any major league pitcher could make 140+ appearances of even a few pitches each and not be absolutely wiped out by season's end. If someone could have done so, it would have been done in real life. If using a pitcher in that fashion would help a real life team win, it would have been done already.

I think the sim would be better if we excluded all pre-1893 players. The game had significantly different rules. Trying to make performances by Clarkson, King, Browning, Chamberlain and others make sense when competing against modern players is essentially impossible.
1/22/2010 11:44 AM
My names Patrick and I'm a simaholic! haha... had to start it off that way, anyway.....

I have always used a 3 man rotation with 4-6 relief pitchers(50 IP min., plus milacki occasionally) that has worked well in every update. Granted, sometimes I will go with a weaker 3-man rotation for a stronger hitting lineup, and vice versa, but ALL of my teams have competed, and competed well. I don't have time to really figure out the fatigue system in detail, but I have never had any problems with it with this rotation.

The fact is pitchers are going to underperform, even the best of the best, most of the time, dont even come close to matching their real stats due to all the great hitting teams out there. The key for me is finding above average starters for cheap $$/IP, spend minimum of $10 mil on relief pitching(getting great relief pitchers is key in winning games late. So many owners use their mop up pitchers innefectively, and it has helped me win countless games over the years).

I think the key to beating the fatigue system is hitting. Hitting obviously helps win games(keeping them 9 innings) and preventing those 18 inning games that ruin your staff. Granted, you could say the same about pitching, but hitters are more reliable and seem to come much closer to their real #s than pitchers in the sim(as always, there are some exceptions.) Finding cheap, low PA (min 520), good hitters like the cedeno's, figgin's, '22 ruth, '23 williams, etc. are always good ways to go. Your going to be giving up defense and PA's but the $$ ur saving can go towards other more powerful hitters, or towards ur staff. Also, to be honest, I don't think defense has THAT much of an effect on the sim as a lot of you out there might think. I usually draft jsut average defense and I have never had a problem, but that can be debatable on another thread. You can also go with the strategy of not drafting a 1B and rotate ur AAA without taking a hit on defense(you could put an F/F OF at 1b and get minimal errors, this strategy is risky, but pays huge dividends if u catch some good AAA hitters).

EVERY team I have created using a variation of this strategy has at least made it to the playoffs, the better pitching teams ive had have won me two TOCs, but I havent had much success winning OL championshipss(which is all I play). I have two TOCs and one OL champ lol.

Haven't tried many other strategies bc im too scared my teams will flop! Maybe a few more TOCs and free teams and ill move away from the norm. Hope this info helps for the newer guys, im sure all u vets have heard this a million times, but figuring this out really helped me when I was new to the sim.
of 3
All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > The Promotion of The Fatigue Strategy

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.